Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:29 pm
devnulljp wrote:Call the RIAA. That would be fun to watch.
Page 2 of 4
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:07 pm
get em to play this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQP9ejI9lZU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQP9ejI9lZU[/youtube]
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:08 pm
theavondon wrote:Achtane wrote:Hey now. You can't deny "Last Christmas" by Wham!.
It's not even a Christmas song beyond the title, plus those synths...fantastic.
LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST CHRISSSSSSSSSSSSSSTMAS I GAVE YOU MY HEART,
THE VERY NEXT DAY, YOU THREW IT AWAY
THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS YEAR I'M SAVIN MY TEARSSS
TO GIVE THEM TO SOMEONE SPESHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUL
I only know the first verse of that song, and it gets stuck in my head whenever I hear it, and so I start singing it out loud.
Oh man. This song was playing at work yesterday and got SO STUCK IN MY HEAD. I like to sing it with the sassiest, lyspiest voice I can do.
I also like that Paul McCartney Chrismas song.
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:10 pm
Officer Bukowski wrote:theavondon wrote:Achtane wrote:Hey now. You can't deny "Last Christmas" by Wham!.
It's not even a Christmas song beyond the title, plus those synths...fantastic.
LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST CHRISSSSSSSSSSSSSSTMAS I GAVE YOU MY HEART,
THE VERY NEXT DAY, YOU THREW IT AWAY
THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS YEAR I'M SAVIN MY TEARSSS
TO GIVE THEM TO SOMEONE SPESHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUL
I only know the first verse of that song, and it gets stuck in my head whenever I hear it, and so I start singing it out loud.
Oh man. This song was playing at work yesterday and got SO STUCK IN MY HEAD. I like to sing it with the sassiest, lyspiest voice I can do.
I also like that Paul McCartney Chrismas song.
yeah that one is pretty sweet too.
It's all about the wintery-sounding synths, I'm telling you.
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:12 pm
Officer Bukowski wrote:I also like that Paul McCartney Chrismas song.
That doesn't deserve small print.
Can't get those synth lines out of my head for days.
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:21 pm
If I were the administrator, I probably would have blown you off, too. The foreign exchange student argument is bogus. Your argument actually defeats your position. Exchange students are here to learn while experiencing a different culture. Part of our culture is the tug of war between religion, government, and freedom.
Being uncomfortable wouldn't fly for me either-- school is not a lounge, and comfort is a minor concern. If comfort was a concern, the seats would be padded, you would be able to go to the bathroom whenever needed, and you would be able to snack and consume beverages during class. Being uncomfortable by music, to me, sounds like a perfect learning experience. Life is full of uncomfortable moments. Get used to it.
A couple of things to note.
1. First amendment. Congress shall create no law establishing a religion. They haven't. Even if they passed a law mandating Christmas music in all public places, it still does not establish a religion. Are you required to... uhh... what do Christians do... embrace Jesus through a symbolic cannibalistic ritual where you drink simulated human blood and consume simulated human flesh?
2. First amendment. Congress shall create no law preventing the free exercise of religion. They haven't-- but forbidding citizens from exercising their religion (e.g. playing Christmas music on a publicly owned property) might. The judicial branch would be well served to refresh themselves on this principle. Does your position on Christmas music prevent other people from exercising their religion?
The "separation between church and state" we all hear about is a fallacy, and does not exist in law. Period. It took me a long time to come to terms with the interplay of religion and government. I was just like you. I took a failing grade in English class one year because I refused to study the bible as anything but a literary work (I wouldn't answer questions about the underlying plot, only about the grammar, sentence structure, writing style, etc.). Now that I am older I am better informed and more experienced, but I would still take the same position. I would, however, not attempt to force my religion-- or lack or religion-- on people in a way that would prevent them from exercising their religion in a public place.
Oh, and I do celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday, so... Merry Christmas!
Mike
Being uncomfortable wouldn't fly for me either-- school is not a lounge, and comfort is a minor concern. If comfort was a concern, the seats would be padded, you would be able to go to the bathroom whenever needed, and you would be able to snack and consume beverages during class. Being uncomfortable by music, to me, sounds like a perfect learning experience. Life is full of uncomfortable moments. Get used to it.
A couple of things to note.
1. First amendment. Congress shall create no law establishing a religion. They haven't. Even if they passed a law mandating Christmas music in all public places, it still does not establish a religion. Are you required to... uhh... what do Christians do... embrace Jesus through a symbolic cannibalistic ritual where you drink simulated human blood and consume simulated human flesh?
2. First amendment. Congress shall create no law preventing the free exercise of religion. They haven't-- but forbidding citizens from exercising their religion (e.g. playing Christmas music on a publicly owned property) might. The judicial branch would be well served to refresh themselves on this principle. Does your position on Christmas music prevent other people from exercising their religion?
The "separation between church and state" we all hear about is a fallacy, and does not exist in law. Period. It took me a long time to come to terms with the interplay of religion and government. I was just like you. I took a failing grade in English class one year because I refused to study the bible as anything but a literary work (I wouldn't answer questions about the underlying plot, only about the grammar, sentence structure, writing style, etc.). Now that I am older I am better informed and more experienced, but I would still take the same position. I would, however, not attempt to force my religion-- or lack or religion-- on people in a way that would prevent them from exercising their religion in a public place.
Oh, and I do celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday, so... Merry Christmas!
Mike
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:26 pm
Mike wrote:If I were the administrator, I probably would have blown you off, too. The foreign exchange student argument is bogus. Your argument actually defeats your position. Exchange students are here to learn while experiencing a different culture. Part of our culture is the tug of war between religion, government, and freedom.
Being uncomfortable wouldn't fly for me either-- school is not a lounge, and comfort is a minor concern. If comfort was a concern, the seats would be padded, you would be able to go to the bathroom whenever needed, and you would be able to snack and consume beverages during class. Being uncomfortable by music, to me, sounds like a perfect learning experience. Life is full of uncomfortable moments. Get used to it.
A couple of things to note.
1. First amendment. Congress shall create no law establishing a religion. They haven't. Even if they passed a law mandating Christmas music in all public places, it still does not establish a religion. Are you required to... uhh... what do Christians do... embrace Jesus through a symbolic cannibalistic ritual where you drink simulated human blood and consume simulated human flesh?
2. First amendment. Congress shall create no law preventing the free exercise of religion. They haven't-- but forbidding citizens from exercising their religion (e.g. playing Christmas music on a publicly owned property) might. The judicial branch would be well served to refresh themselves on this principle. Does your position on Christmas music prevent other people from exercising their religion?
The "separation between church and state" we all hear about is a fallacy, and does not exist in law. Period. It took me a long time to come to terms with the interplay of religion and government. I was just like you. I took a failing grade in English class one year because I refused to study the bible as anything but a literary work (I wouldn't answer questions about the underlying plot, only about the grammar, sentence structure, writing style, etc.). Now that I am older I am better informed and more experienced, but I would still take the same position. I would, however, not attempt to force my religion-- or lack or religion-- on people in a way that would prevent them from exercising their religion in a public place.
Oh, and I do celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday, so... Merry Christmas!
Mike
::EDIT:: You know what, nevermind, it's not worth it.
summary: I completely and utterly disagree with every single thing you wrote.
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:33 pm
@Mike
If I begin responding to this in earnest I may end up having typed several pages before I realize it.
Instead, I'll simply say that in every case similar to what has been described that I have ever heard of or read about reaching a high court, the ruling has been to remove the religious practice or appearance of practice from the school (exceptions being private clubs and the like run by students, these being sanctioned but not endorsed in a public manner by the school) on the basis of the first amendment - which I might note isn't simply about establishing religion, but also about favour and promotion of a religion.
If I begin responding to this in earnest I may end up having typed several pages before I realize it.
Instead, I'll simply say that in every case similar to what has been described that I have ever heard of or read about reaching a high court, the ruling has been to remove the religious practice or appearance of practice from the school (exceptions being private clubs and the like run by students, these being sanctioned but not endorsed in a public manner by the school) on the basis of the first amendment - which I might note isn't simply about establishing religion, but also about favour and promotion of a religion.
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:22 pm
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:40 pm
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:30 pm
theavondon wrote:
BUT THE VERY
NEXT
DAY
YOU GAVE IT AWAY
(GAVE IT AWAYYYY...)
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:42 pm
Mike, public schools are an extension of the state and therefore your "no law" argument doesn't quite pan out. See free speech cases regarding kids who were suspended for their clothing. As long as it doesn't distract other students or prevent the school from doing its job.
I'd say you have a decent case given you want to go to the trouble to sue the school. Unless they can establish Christmas as a secular holiday. There are plenty of Christmas songs that say nothing about jeebus.
They could only justify it if it served some sort of purpose, for example school bands play a lot of classical music that is religiously inspired however that is for the purpose of teaching kids to play instruments, a legitimate purpose of a state institution.
But seriously, all Christmas music sucks.
I'd say you have a decent case given you want to go to the trouble to sue the school. Unless they can establish Christmas as a secular holiday. There are plenty of Christmas songs that say nothing about jeebus.
They could only justify it if it served some sort of purpose, for example school bands play a lot of classical music that is religiously inspired however that is for the purpose of teaching kids to play instruments, a legitimate purpose of a state institution.
But seriously, all Christmas music sucks.
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:11 pm
It's ok if you guys disagree with me. I still like you. 
I understand how the courts have ruled. Policy related to religious displays on public property is far from settled, with some being prohibited and some not. It is, of course, subject to constant review-- as it should be.
Mike
I understand how the courts have ruled. Policy related to religious displays on public property is far from settled, with some being prohibited and some not. It is, of course, subject to constant review-- as it should be.
Mike
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:13 pm
chirstmas music and Xmas music are totally different.
most holiday songs are xmas music, if youg et my drift
most holiday songs are xmas music, if youg et my drift
Re: Is this legal?
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:35 pm
Gearmond wrote:chirstmas music and Xmas music are totally different.
most holiday songs are xmas music, if you get my drift
I would agree with this for the most part.
Most Christmas songs are about things like Santa Claus, snow, and loved ones. Hardly religious for the most part.
Sure, there are songs about Jesus. But those aren't that popular in comparison.
Pick up the average contemporary Christmas album and there are only like 2 songs that are distinctly religious. That makes an argument against it pretty tough. Especially considering the pledge of allegiance and our money has phrases relating to God on them.