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you know, Spanky, it's about time for you to get over this attitude of yours that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid or misinformed. people, myself included, have clearly read the article and have mentioned various of its particulars, and you can see that. if you really WANT to have a "real discussion," don't be a troll.

eatyourguitar wrote:one day the kid is gonna grab his dick and ask his mom what it is. the mom is gonna have a some dumb shit answer that will make him want to play with it more or cut it off.

Never know, he might want to cut it off and then play with it.

I think he was trying to say that gender secrecy only applies to the media and therefor the family isn't denying anything at home. a lot of the comments including mine were insinuating that the child has ambiguity forced on them which spunkle thinks is not the case as stated by the article.

McSpunckle wrote:The comments in this thread about how boys and girls are just different are precisely my point. Not only does it make it painfully obvious that you didn't read the article, but it shows that the children will grow into their "natural" self no matter if the parents tell them that they can only wear clothes that are traditionally for boys. The article alludes to the oldest son going to some sort of camp (or similar-- it doesn't say what it is, exactly), so they are interacting with other children.

i agree. i don't think a lot of people know/care about the differences between the cultural construction of gender and the biological basis of sex. i think it's really cool what the parents are doing, but i can't help but wonder if that'll be somewhat undone or possibly cause problems when the kids start spending less time at home and become more exposed to society's gender binary and expectations.

all kids face bullying, definitely. i got bullied (as kids do), but it wasn't usually for my name, although i bet storm will face some of that too. it was usually for acting in ways society deems masculine. my brother got bullied a lot worse for the exact opposite. gender's tough stuff.

i think a lot of the replies (not just in this thread, but in the comments of the article and such) about how 'feminine' jazz appears are telling to society's perceptions of and reactions to people who don't fully subscribe to our culture's gender binary.

Meh. At some point those kids are going to go through puberty, they might be confused or not, they might [will] hate their parents for using them as a experiment [they WILL see this as such]. I would! If I was one of those kids and someday found this I would be PISSED! "What the hell you use my existence to test a theory? FUCK YOU! I'm changing my name, moving far away and voting republican! I hate you, I hate you I hate you!" or something like that

Blackened Soul wrote:"What the hell you use my existence to test a theory? FUCK YOU! I'm changing my name, moving far away and voting republican! I hate you, I hate you I hate you!"

failed leftism? extistential non-genderism? faily failed at parenting-ism?

The kid will know his own gender pretty quick.

Maybe they'll get picked on or maybe they'll actually be freed from some of the more bullshit expectations we place on gender. Either way this isn't child abuse or even that much of an experiment, so much more awful shit happens to kids on a daily basis this one is just lucky it's parents actually give a shit about their existence.

I knew a kid in school whose name was Rainbow. No last name, just Rainbow. People said a lot of this same shit about bullying and "how can they be successful" but guess what? Kids are confident when their parents pay attention to them and it's pretty hard to bully confident kids. She's a pretty successful artist now (go figure) but she seems happy.
Shit, you wanna really fuck up a kid? Take em to Church every Sunday. That's at least as much of imposition of values and politics and an excuse to get picked on.

If he's a boy he'll probably get massive pussy in high school for being so interesting.

Someone should remind these people that kids are dumb and not suited to making good decisions. There is very little difference between a toddler and a really drunk frat guy. They both stagger around breaking shit, babbling something incomprehensible, then they puke all over everything, pass out , and shit themselves.

If they, "noticed is that parents make so many choices for their children. It’s obnoxious,” then why are the being equally obnoxious the other way around.

And don't even get me started on "unschooling".

If that's about the freedom of choice, then let me put it this way... yeah, train of thoughts is starting, all aboard

why would parents let their children choose whatever they want to do since an age of 18months? Should they let them wear anything they choose because "ababababa so shinyyyyy"? then should they let them do whatever they want because they don't know any better? Should they let them eat whatever they want because it's always the best idea? Should they let them absorb and embrace every stupid thing they hear from around? why? to be "more progressive"?

I know some of you might say i'm not talking about the gender thing... i don't know, but i'm afraid it could exceed the gender thing. I think those people are taking Locke's magna carta too far and giving too much freedom to the child

It is said - or at least i believe it - that you become an adult as soon as you embrace your responsibility. Until then, you're not an adult, your an adolescent, a kid or a baby. Your parents are to make a lot decisions for you and i think it's a good thing. Later you either agree with those or you don't - that depends on how do you develop in your head. And that isn't always dependant on how were you brought up. When you become an adult, you embrace the responsibility and since then it's up to you if you follow your parents or you make your own way

i'm pro parenting. A GOOD and responsible parenting and sorry, but that just doesn't seem like it to me. And if you're going to bash me for being just a 19 years old, be my guest... i've been through a few things i don't want to share about here and now




um... i should really start a blog or a diary, huh? wtf... sorry if i offendede someone, i just needed to get it out of my system

edit:

Caesar wrote:Someone should remind these people that kids are dumb and not suited to making good decisions. There is very little difference between a toddler and a really drunk frat guy. They both stagger around breaking shit, babbling something incomprehensible, then they puke all over everything, pass out , and shit themselves.

thanks, that was my point exactly

Caesar wrote:Someone should remind these people that kids are dumb and not suited to making good decisions. There is very little difference between a toddler and a really drunk frat guy. They both stagger around breaking shit, babbling something incomprehensible, then they puke all over everything, pass out , and shit themselves.

If they, "noticed is that parents make so many choices for their children. It’s obnoxious,” then why are the being equally obnoxious the other way around.

And don't even get me started on "unschooling".

Definitely agree with that shit, I only worry that we might be makinng assumptions about their parenting style. Being sometimes permissive isn't the same as letting your kids run entirely wild, I dont know if we have enough info on these people to make that distinction.

Nick Swardson has a great bit on drunk friends being the same as babysitting toddlers: "Why you takin of your shirt man? I cant understand what you're saying. No, I can't understan... Great, you shit yourself."

i was really skeptical of unschooling too. i don't know if i would do it if i ever wanted kids, but it's not as crazy of an idea as it seems. if you've got the time, here's a long but really interesting speech a woman who was unschooled gave. when i really think about it, all the things i'm really passionate about i've pursued on my own. i think unschooling really only works if the parents instill a love of learning and some extreme curiosity in their kids from a very young age.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwIyy1Fi-4Q[/youtube]

dubkitty wrote:ow, i'm not a partisan for traditional sex roles...far from it. but this kind of "you're not EITHER" business is just insane, i'm sorry.

But it's I thought libertarians were all about individual freedoms

Wow.
That's a pretty interesting article.
I think it's a pretty cool idea. As someone who struggled with gender identity a bit as a kid, this is pretty cool.
I don't know. It would be interesting to see where the kids end up.

When asked what psychological harm, if any, could come from keeping the sex of a child secret, Zucker said: “One will find out.”

This pretty much sums up how fucked up these people are!



It is an interesting theoretical question. But it is just twisted to actually do that to your child. They are willfully alienating their kid from the world on behalf of some better world they hope will come as soon as STORM saves the day and abolishes gender? It makes me sick sick sick.
Of course there are more things between male and female than minds can ever know (btw Dev, didn't know you wrote poetry and made animated movies or was that on commission?). I am trying to support my daughter when she's into boy stuff and she really loves cars and trucks and balls. (No, not those balls!) But she also loves her little doll and playing to change the diapers and put the doll to bed or walk her in the little buggy. So what? Why am I to impose something on my child if instead I can just be supportive?
Yes, I read the article and it's extremely biased and as a journalist I'd be ashamed of publishing that. There is not one person in the article that speaks out against the decision those people have made. That is just bad work. Instead the neighbors are ridiculed. The text tries to convey the point that the parents leave the decisions up to their children, but children are naturally submissive to their parents. If the parents keep the sex to themselves the children will learn to do so as well. The decision is made and it's a bad one in my opinion.