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unownunown wrote:love these pictures from it. we sure live in interesting times...

That's f-in hard stance right there

that is some intense shit going on ...i just saw video of some guy getting shot down [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XnhHzs91MY[/youtube]

power to the people!

I want to support this, but on principle, I don't support any revolt that is this spontaneous and disorganized. What are they revolting for? That's infinitely more important than what they're revolting against.

In all honesty, I don't see this ending well.

snipelfritz wrote:I want to support this, but on principle, I don't support any revolt that is this spontaneous and disorganized. What are they revolting for? That's infinitely more important than what they're revolting against.

In all honesty, I don't see this ending well.

I agree. Although I can see why they are but what will they get in the end is question.

snipelfritz wrote:I want to support this, but on principle, I don't support any revolt that is this spontaneous and disorganized. What are they revolting for? That's infinitely more important than what they're revolting against.

In all honesty, I don't see this ending well.

...sure there will be a lots of bruises to heal. There is, of course, usually a need behind every spontaneous revolt, even for the violent ones, to overcome the silent oppression. Reminds me of bringing down the Berlin Wall, which was so totally unforeseen, even frightening, then.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ODNxy3YOPU[/youtube]

I'm not denying the need, but you can never be sure something better will come from it. The French Revolution was rather spontaneous and that resulted in the Reign of Terror and an attempted world conquest at the hands of a mad dictator.

As one of my former professors once told me, a revolution will never be successful if you do not have a revolutionary organization established prior to the revolt. The issue is that many of the prevailing anti-establishment bodies in that area happen to be religious extremists and will likely establish an oppressive theocracy in the power vacuum that will result in completely dismantling the current government. That isn't to say the current government isn't an obvious faux-democracy and could be better. My point is that it could also be worse.

snipelfritz wrote:I'm not denying the need, but you can never be sure something better will come from it. The French Revolution was rather spontaneous and that resulted in the Reign of Terror and an attempted world conquest at the hands of a mad dictator.

As one of my former professors once told me, a revolution will never be successful if you do not have a revolutionary organization established prior to the revolt. The issue is that many of the prevailing anti-establishment bodies in that area happen to be religious extremists and will likely establish an oppressive theocracy in the power vacuum that will result in completely dismantling the current government. That isn't to say the current government isn't an obvious faux-democracy and could be better. My point is that it could also be worse.

Your point is valid, no other word of that. The people tend to opt for anybody offering freedom from the previous oppression, not too critical about the shortcomings of the political usurper, unless even the poorest part of the population is well educated enough. Which is not the case. It'd be best for the Egypt to have their a new government without any too dramatic changes at once.

I'd like to think the would be antithesis to Mubarak government can be a secular democracy, though it's just as possibly getting anti-West . But it will take time for things to settle down anyhow. In the worst case, who's breaking in the power vacuum is irrelevant, the theocratic islamist radicals and the extremist secular libertarians can bring both much harm to the people in unstable political situation. I'm thinking about the possibility of the former Eastern Block phenomenon happening over Egypt - not that they didn't have terrible corruption there already.

snipelfritz wrote:I want to support this, but on principle, I don't support any revolt that is this spontaneous and disorganized. What are they revolting for? That's infinitely more important than what they're revolting against.

In all honesty, I don't see this ending well.

from wikipedia: "Grievances for Egyptian protesters have focused on legal and political issues[15] including police brutality,[11] state of emergency laws,[11] lack of free elections and free speech,[16] and corruption,[16] as well as economic issues including high unemployment,[17] food price inflation,[17] and low minimum wages.[11][17]"

http://www.france24.com/en/20110125-egy ... e-protests
http://www.businessinsider.com/egypt-de ... sis-2011-1

i think it's hard from a western point of view to understand exactly HOW frustrated egyptians are. i think to a certain extent it stops being about really truly thinking the riot will change shit and becomes about having an outlet.