"Sorry buddy. Not really my problem"

[hbombgraphics]

Tried to find a good example; couldn't do it, got annoyed. Super homogeneous, soupy sounds, not a lot of percussion, major keys.

The guitar playing wouldn't all be bad if played by an ILFer through an ILF-y rig. But the rest would be a little rough.

yeah the guitars is OK (lots of offsets to be official)

I think if you follow T1M on Instagram you get a good idea of what a traditional P&W setup is like

there are some guys on here that play at churches (Myself included) but I don't know that we would call ourselves P&W guitarists.
As a reference I also play at funerals, weddings, school talent shows (tonight with my daughter), basically anywhere where people need a guitar, don't expect you to rehearse much and let you show up and play, it's about what my schedule allows. And playing worship lead especially is the most shut your brain off easy that you can do, major scales and boxes all day, the guys that play at church that are the most fun though are the old rockers that got converted and are blasting a Lespaul and just shredding like they never left their 80s cover band. I don't think those are the P&W people we are generally making fun of,

[Invisible Man]

I'm sure you do it justice, H Bomb. If someone did the droney/ambient/slow stuff a lot of us are into, but played it into an Orange head/cab or something rather than a Fender combo and ss/bs rather than Strymon peds, I think we'd be hard pressed to tell who was P&W and who was dooming hard.

[D.o.S.]

By photos or clips?

Because, uh, not a lot of doom is in a major key.

I always just liken it to bad Explosions in the Sky (so... Explosions in the Sky)

[hbombgraphics]

I'm sure you do it justice, H Bomb. If someone did the droney/ambient/slow stuff a lot of us are into, but played it into an Orange head/cab or something rather than a Fender combo and ss/bs rather than Strymon peds, I think we'd be hard pressed to tell who was P&W and who was dooming hard.

Running into an AC15 mostly but want to start playing the wood striped randall if I ever get someone to carry it for me.


This thread fascinates me because I have seen church in general bring out the absolute worst in some people and the absolute best in others, it's kinda crazy.

as far as the doom goes,
Playing in
A Major
G Major
E Major This week


not a ton of doom

[goroth]

Tried to find a good example; couldn't do it, got annoyed. Super homogeneous, soupy sounds, not a lot of percussion, major keys.

The guitar playing wouldn't all be bad if played by an ILFer through an ILF-y rig. But the rest would be a little rough.

yeah the guitars is OK (lots of offsets to be official)

I think if you follow T1M on Instagram you get a good idea of what a traditional P&W setup is like

there are some guys on here that play at churches (Myself included) but I don't know that we would call ourselves P&W guitarists.
As a reference I also play at funerals, weddings, school talent shows (tonight with my daughter), basically anywhere where people need a guitar, don't expect you to rehearse much and let you show up and play, it's about what my schedule allows. And playing worship lead especially is the most shut your brain off easy that you can do, major scales and boxes all day, the guys that play at church that are the most fun though are the old rockers that got converted and are blasting a Lespaul and just shredding like they never left their 80s cover band. I don't think those are the P&W people we are generally making fun of,

I think there's a difference between playing music in a church and playing p&w. Which you've rightly put your finger on.

[hbombgraphics]

Tried to find a good example; couldn't do it, got annoyed. Super homogeneous, soupy sounds, not a lot of percussion, major keys.

The guitar playing wouldn't all be bad if played by an ILFer through an ILF-y rig. But the rest would be a little rough.

yeah the guitars is OK (lots of offsets to be official)

I think if you follow T1M on Instagram you get a good idea of what a traditional P&W setup is like

there are some guys on here that play at churches (Myself included) but I don't know that we would call ourselves P&W guitarists.
As a reference I also play at funerals, weddings, school talent shows (tonight with my daughter), basically anywhere where people need a guitar, don't expect you to rehearse much and let you show up and play, it's about what my schedule allows. And playing worship lead especially is the most shut your brain off easy that you can do, major scales and boxes all day, the guys that play at church that are the most fun though are the old rockers that got converted and are blasting a Lespaul and just shredding like they never left their 80s cover band. I don't think those are the P&W people we are generally making fun of,

I think there's a difference between playing music in a church and playing p&w. Which you've rightly put your finger on.

I hope so
If I ever get called a P&W guitarist I will probably spew

[rustywire]

Whew, thread was simmering on the back burner
Condensed replies pt 1:

NSFW: show

Nothing more French than awarding French points...to yourself.

I'm in a shitty mood and want to argue. No surprise that D and DD take the bait.

Basically kinda bored with the whole knee-jerk 'Christianity is evil' play. It's annoying and disingenuous. Whatever edge it had has been dulled in infinite weed-shrouded dorm room discussions.

WELL POINT ME TO ANOTHER COMPETENT AUTHORITY WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO EVALUATING FRENCHNESS. HINT. I ONLY RECOGNIZE MINE IN A VERY FRENCH WAY.

But it's nice to argue. It's fun intellectually I mean. It's engaging. And because you're a master in counterpoint it is even more. And it's not that often I get to drop my Camus knowledge and make decent use of it.

But I really thought we were way beyond discussing christianity (albeit a very specific form, because many christians are chill, and there are even churches, for exemple liberation theology is completely culturally and politically decentralized, at least theoretically). My thoughts apply to militant quinoa eaters too. I don't need them antagonizing my very legal carbohydrates because they have different moral standards than mine.

Def. Some may take this thread to be contentious and vilify christianity or christians, church etc. That isn't where I was going with it.
It's about the fundamentalist individual who does mental gymnastics to have their cake & eat it, too. The type of person whose conviction in their belief is iron clad, and *somehow* always favorable to facilitate their desire, even when contradicting the spirit of said belief.

Basically kinda bored with the whole knee-jerk 'Christianity is evil' play. It's annoying and disingenuous. Whatever edge it had has been dulled in infinite weed-shrouded dorm room discussions.

But I really thought we were way beyond discussing christianity (albeit a very specific form, because many christians are chill, and there are even churches, for example liberation theology is completely culturally and politically decentralized, at least theoretically). My thoughts apply to militant quinoa eaters too. I don't need them antagonizing my very legal carbohydrates because they have different moral standards than mine.

Yeah, I viewed this less as a "Christianity is evil" thing and more of a "look at these assholes that can't even stick to their own beliefs" thing.
I've dealt with plenty of people like that in the Church. The kind that go to church Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday and act like they're god's gift to the world, so that gives them free reign to be assholes to anyone they deem "unworthy" of their holiness.

Yes. FME it's the people who wear their identity on their sleeves and carry themselves sanctimoniously who (deservingly) open themselves up to greater scrutiny. By rule such individuals tend to be the cruelest to anyone they perceive as out-group to their in-group. Also by rule such individuals fail to live up to their standards, image, and tend to be overcompensating for their own shortcomings.

Worth pointing out perhaps that those mythologies are defined by unending struggle, which (could, perhaps necessarily) conflate being religious and being an asshole -- at the very least being complicit if not actively engaging in behaviors, trends, and stances that would appear to modern man to be nothing less than definitively assholish?

History is literally littered with examples (based both in the secular and the sacred but the former isn't part of the discussion) but the idea of "what I am doing is intrinsically good because X validates it and, conveniently, X can be used to justify anything if I make a token motion that my behavior is in service of X*" means that they're not quite as neatly distinguished as your position may wish them to be in this conversation.

*alternatively written as:"Sorry buddy. Not really my problem"?

Also written/imagined as "Because this other individual thinks (or prays) like me and agrees, it means we and only those who are like us are the chosen ones; free to mistreat the infidels actively, passively, directly or by proxy. It's not only justified but necessary and right."

[Invisible Man]

By photos or clips?

Because, uh, not a lot of doom is in a major key.

I always just liken it to bad Explosions in the Sky (so... Explosions in the Sky)

viewtopic.php?f=227&t=39501

Dude c'mon don't force me to librarian shame you.

[fcknoise]

I have had quite a few discussions with friends who are more or less religious. Consequently, I've gone from atheist to agnostic. I definitely believe it has its place in society though, and loads of bashing of it targets the wrong aspects of it. First, to make this argument we need to divide religions into a political message and a spiritual message. There is this common notion that religion has been on a constant downfall, and for a good reason. In western societies the political aspect of religion is almost completely gone, except for maybe the US. The spirituality however, oscillates in popularity, and people apparently still have a need to believe in something higher. I find it quite distasteful that some choose to go on and on about "the bible says that LOL", "the Quran says this, ROFL" when it's completely beside the point.

This related to your earlier discussion, and I kinda wanted to post this point before but I couldn't be bothered at the time

[Chankgeez]

By photos or clips?

Because, uh, not a lot of doom is in a major key.

I always just liken it to bad Explosions in the Sky (so... Explosions in the Sky)

viewtopic.php?f=227&t=39501

Dude c'mon don't force me to librarian shame you.

[Invisible Man]

agnostic

I couldn't be bothered at the time

[D.o.S.]

Sure, brands, it's a system of social control that has been overstepped by secular laws and the like (and birth control/other advancements in that vein. Hard to keep the womenfolk in line when they can have sex with whomever they want without winding up with children -- see the contention around abortion). I don't think there's any debating that?

By photos or clips?

Because, uh, not a lot of doom is in a major key.

I always just liken it to bad Explosions in the Sky (so... Explosions in the Sky)

viewtopic.php?f=227&t=39501

Dude c'mon don't force me to librarian shame you.

Just because something's heavy doesn't make it doom. Shirley Collins released one of the heaviest records of the year last year and that's about as un-doom as you get, in some respects.

I was more thinking about this sort of thing (from Such Hawks Such Hounds):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaOig8DMskk[/youtube]

[fcknoise]

Sure, brands, it's a system of social control that has been overstepped by secular laws and the like (and birth control/other advancements in that vein. Hard to keep the womenfolk in line when they can have sex with whomever they want without winding up with children -- see the contention around abortion). I don't think there's any debating that?

Maybe I like the obvious targets, but I was more thinking that the spiritual and the political bits of religion is lumped together by most of the new atheist movement

[rustywire]

Pt 2:

NSFW: show

Worth pointing out perhaps that those mythologies are defined by unending struggle, which (could, perhaps necessarily) conflate being religious and being an asshole -- at the very least being complicit if not actively engaging in behaviors, trends, and stances that would appear to modern man to be nothing less than definitively assholish?

History is literally littered with examples (based both in the secular and the sacred but the former isn't part of the discussion) but the idea of "what I am doing is intrinsically good because X validates it and, conveniently, X can be used to justify anything if I make a token motion that my behavior is in service of X*" means that they're not quite as neatly distinguished as your position may wish them to be in this conversation.

*alternatively written as:"Sorry buddy. Not really my problem"?

If some external idea/god/presence validates an action, isn't that the definition of extrinsic motivation? Not being petty about word choices, just not sure I follow.

Not for nothing that the X is this equation is exactly what I'm talking about in regards to being annoyed at the digs this thread takes. It's the same thing I've said elsewhere: it doesn't make sense to me that people who have lots of sensitivity to subjectivity dismiss folks who feel differently than they do. I understand why--'don't impose your perceived-objective reality on me'--but there's an element of crazy to that way of thinking. Thinking has to be grounded in some shared sense of empirical reality (if it isn't, it's a literal definition for madness).

Yeah man. It's extra grating, having to endure the solipsistic way of thinking, where an individual conflates their opinion with fact and proselytizes on a soap box. But feeling differently about the facts doesn't change [them]. Fundies tend to have a static view of *objective reality* which aligns with and hinges upon their opinion being correct from their vantage, so they assert facts are open to debate. Whether the fundie is on the A or B side of an issue, their perspective is the best to see the facts (and almost always myopic).

I think in reality, it's the outsider observing both A and B from C or beyond, who has an objectively superior view of the issue... and by sincerely putting themselves in both A and B's positions (and divorcing themselves from sentimental bias) can the "what happened" have any solid foundation. Madness is "what happened" still being open to endless debate, once the principle details are accurate. "Why it happened" is a better target for such thought exercise... and the bias really comes out

And there's no 'dig' inherent in the X example -- it's just identifying an iteration of superior orders/command responsibility that may justify acting like an asshole (or whatever term you want) that seems to come hand in hand with tethering yourself to a lifestyle doctrine like the one being discussed.

In-group/out-group dynamic and the stack of sin...where all sins are not equal, and neither are the sinners.

Fires will burn anyway, D. We're solving the crisis of modernity here.

I wasn't saying you made a dig--I meant the sense of 'yeah religion is so phony ha ha' that seems so base, easy, and dismissive.

It's not the belief system of the sheep which is phony; the phony is the wolf in sheep's clothing.

[rustywire]

This thread fascinates me because I have seen church in general bring out the absolute worst in some people and the absolute best in others, it's kinda crazy.

Like most any mind-altering, psychotropic substance