The ILF-ILNBA Basketball Thread

[D.o.S.]

I mean you can't say coaching matters by comparing anyone to Mark Jackson (who created a culture [Steph Curry loves Mark Jackson] but is basically a faux bible-thumping dipshit) and saying "look! Improvement!"

Good coaches get more out of the same roster than bad coaches, though, for sure.

[rustywire]

I mean you can't say coaching matters by comparing anyone to Mark Jackson (who created a culture [Steph Curry loves Mark Jackson] but is basically a faux bible-thumping dipshit) and saying "look! Improvement!"

Good coaches get more out of the same roster than bad coaches, though, for sure.

Coaching def matters, yup. George Karl took the Nuggets to the 3rd seed in the stacked west, 2013 and won coach of the year. Nuggets fired him that off season & hired Brian Shaw...who couldn't take the same team less Andre Ig to the playoffs...running Andre Miller out of town in the process after breaking his 2nd IRONMAN streak of 239 consecutive games played, with a DNP in typical *doesn't know own personnel* ineffective leadership fashion.

One of the worst coaching-change decisions of all time. Lost their GM to Toronto too...and Nuggets have been garbage ever since.

[D.o.S.]

That Nuggets team was overachieving (even with the Pepsi Center home court advantage) in 2013, though, and Karl definitely wasn't fired because of his on the court stuff: he wears out his welcome everywhere, always has.

They do quietly have a pretty awful ownership group, and losing Ujiri was the worst.

[odontophobia]

Sorry for your loss.
After getting whipped by the Pistons, Golden State had something to prove. Lebron and co. couldn't handle.

[pelliott]

Ha, it's okay. Warriors came to kick the Cavs' teeth in. Cavs weren't ready for it and have to be firing on all cylinders if we're going to beat them. Cavs would have a shot in a seven game series but it'll take Kyrie making shots early/late to keep the game close (wasn't happening) and both him and Love defending moderately well (definitely wasn't happening).

We'll see if that can actually happen, but the Cavs are good enough that they could feasibly win a 7 game series vs the Warriors and Spurs.

[odontophobia]

Ha, it's okay. Warriors came to kick the Cavs' teeth in. Cavs weren't ready for it and have to be firing on all cylinders if we're going to beat them. Cavs would have a shot in a seven game series but it'll take Kyrie making shots early/late to keep the game close (wasn't happening) and both him and Love defending moderately well (definitely wasn't happening).

We'll see if that can actually happen, but the Cavs are good enough that they could feasibly win a 7 game series vs the Warriors and Spurs.

To be honest, after actually winning last year I'm so soured on GSW. don't get me wrong, they're all great players but Klay Thompson and Draymond Green just seem so fucking pompous. Klay talking about being the best SG and I'm over here like, bro, do you even Jimmy Butler because Jimmy gets buckets has been going ham this season and he isn't playing with a point guard who is basically a SG. And Draymond just has a big, stupid mouth. Not talking about their skill level... just their 'tudes.

I'm basically rooting for the Spurs to win this year. I like Pop. Kawhi is out of control.

Can't expect Detroit to win this year. They need a few more years. Hoping Jennings sticks around and that he, Reggie, and KCP get to work out this awesome 3-headed guard attack and that Stanley Johnson starts to dominate fools with some tight 3&D game.

[pelliott]

Kawhi is so great. The Spurs are scary. Pop will find a way, too. I mentioned them because I really like their chances of coming out of the West this year.

[D.o.S.]

Kevin Love still sucks. Cleveland is probably the only team in the East that can hang with the big four in the West, though.

Happy Rondo's recovered his mojo, even if he's toiling away in Sactown.

[pelliott]

"sucks" is a pretty strong word for a guy who's put up 26ppg/12rpg in two separate seasons.

He may not be cut out to be the third wheel on this team, though. We'll see.

[hbombgraphics]

They don't use him right at all because it's all ISO ball
you put Love on the Spurs Clipper Warriors and he instantly improves

[pelliott]

Oh for sure there's ways the Cavs could use him better. More post-ups, less catch-and-shoot (honestly his stroke looks better when he takes a dribble and is more in rhythm), but his spacing even if he's not shooting super well, rebounding, and passing are invaluable in the Cavs offense -- which, like you said, is a lot of ISO right now but they're still working to get Kyrie back in rhythm and the team chemistry back. Overall the offense looked very fluid at the start of the season. Hopefully they re-evaluate where they stand right now and start to dial in their focus. This is about the time where last season they figured it out. I'm just not for knee-jerk opinions on fire/trade people when we don't have a full postseason of everyone playing together. There's still time.

And that's not to say anyone here was saying they need to trade Love or fire Blatt -- I've just already seen those hot takes online and it's like... chill the fuck out, it's just sports

[D.o.S.]

They don't use him right at all because it's all ISO ball
you put Love on the Spurs Clipper Warriors and he instantly improves

I'm not sure that's true, but I'm decidedly not a fan of Love.

"sucks" is a pretty strong word for a guy who's put up 26ppg/12rpg in two separate seasons.

He may not be cut out to be the third wheel on this team, though. We'll see.

He doesn't give a shit about defense and in order for him to put up those gaudy numbers he has to be a primary option, unfortunately that doesn't result in particularly successful NBA teams (see: misery hole of Minnesota). Some of that is Kahn, some of that is injuries, but some of that is Love.

Since he joined Cleveland he's basically been playing at the level he did during his rookie and sophomore campaigns (gross oversimplification but I've got work to do)

[rustywire]

That Nuggets team was overachieving (even with the Pepsi Center home court advantage) in 2013, though, and Karl definitely wasn't fired because of his on the court stuff: he wears out his welcome everywhere, always has.

They do quietly have a pretty awful ownership group, and losing Ujiri was the worst.

I'm sure many people will agree they overachieved...but the week before that season began I went on record "this is the year Nuggets crack top 3 seeding" and sure enough they did just that. It didn't help their post-season hope when the last week of the reg season saw their leading scorer Gallo go down, Manimal badly sprain his ankle & there was another key rotation-disrupting injury I'm forgetting. They only lost 3 home games that year...and iirc they were 2 schedule losses and a stolen game, 1st day home on a back-to-back after a road trip. Pretty sure the Blazers stole one there in Denver. Anyway, Karl was fired because of foolish ownership being wooed by some powerpoint presentation on analytics and the decision to *take the team in a new direction* as if a 50 win season (and their best in years) was somehow unacceptable. That *new direction* was apparently to the NBA lottery.

They def overachieved following the Melo trade in 2011. After that, Nugs were on the rise...becoming my fav league pass team 2011-2013 when they were 10 deep with guys who were upper top 10 at their position, just no stars. Management should have kept Mr. Bigshot...maybe then they would have gotten some calls & made a few freethrows. Oh well.

[pelliott]

They don't use him right at all because it's all ISO ball
you put Love on the Spurs Clipper Warriors and he instantly improves

I'm not sure that's true, but I'm decidedly not a fan of Love.

"sucks" is a pretty strong word for a guy who's put up 26ppg/12rpg in two separate seasons.

He may not be cut out to be the third wheel on this team, though. We'll see.

He doesn't give a shit about defense and in order for him to put up those gaudy numbers he has to be a primary option, unfortunately that doesn't result in particularly successful NBA teams (see: misery hole of Minnesota). Some of that is Kahn, some of that is injuries, but some of that is Love.

Since he joined Cleveland he's basically been playing at the level he did during his rookie and sophomore campaigns (gross oversimplification but I've got work to do)

I'm not saying he WILL put up those numbers in Cleveland, I'm saying even if it is stat padding (and part of it was on some of those shitty teams), it takes a hell of a lot of talent to put up those numbers with relatively good efficiency. To say he sucks is an overstatement. He's still a very good player who is decidedly mediocre on defense (earlier this season he was showing promise at that end, I do wonder if his back is acting up again or what's going on), the Warriors game was the biggest exposure of that.

His skillset, including his floor spacing, post game, and passing are extremely valuable to a team that knows how to use him properly. He's an All Star-caliber talent (though not an All Star this year) who still has room for improvement.

Also: Mozgov playing poorly does not help the team defense very much. It's exposed some weaknesses. Tristan is doing really well and lineups with Love, LeBron, Tristan, and Kyrie run people off the floor, but the rotation still is not playing like it should.

[hbombgraphics]

I don't like love much either, but they don't even call plays for the guy
it's a terrible fit
he passes way to well to not touch the ball and be expected to be a mike miller type (without the hustle and defense of course)