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Occupy LA?
Our media (in Croatia) started reporting stuff about the protests. Interesting. I wouldn't have expected this to reach mainstream media at all.

From what I've seen, they're covering the protests themselves while giving lip service to the ideas behind the protest.

dubkitty wrote:they blocked the street, and then tried to break the police barricade. they deserved to get maced. the Civil Rights protestors of the 50s and 60s, who were actually fighting for something worthwhile, had to face cops with clubs, police dogs, tear gas, and terrorist attacks like the Birmingham church bombing and the shootings of Medgar Evers and James Meredith. i'm supposed to get whiny because a handful of yappy college girls got exactly what they provoked just to get attention and posture in a way that HAD no effect, and WILL HAVE absolutely no effect? the notion that people are so fed up with "capitalist hegemony" that they're going to race into the streets to follow a bunch of anarchists who aren't even old enough to drink yet? please. if they want to demonstrate against the cause of the problems in the economy, they need to move from Wall Street to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. nobody cares what fifty socialists say.

i haven't read the rest of the thread yet... but i agree with this.

the comparisons to the arab spring also upset me.

dubkitty wrote:both "socialists" and "anarchists" were present, as noted in other Net coverage. "over 1000 people" is about the number of people who stand around outside a medium-sized concert venue in NYC. and according to the video there were several, probably four or five, people who pushed the line with at least three behind them with cameras and videocams intending to follow. you're assuming that the video is a discrete incident when it seems apparent that this is the end of a longer incident requiring the cops to use the net barricade along the curb to block them in--you can see how it's had to be stretched around the street-sign pole at center of the curb line--at the end of which one of the white-shirts, who is probably authorized to use mace as different to the beat cops in blue, is called in. when you create an incident, there you are in the incident. if you do things when you protest that you know are going to get you maced, well, there you go. when i demonstrated, i knew i could get my head cracked, and i always used to go up to the mysterious plainclothes guys taking pictures of everyone and pose, since i figured i was gonna be in the files anyway.

that's the really irritating thing about modern progressives: the people who made the great strides for human rights and dignity had to fight and die for their causes; modern youth think they should just get what they want because they yell a bit. MOMMY! THEY MACED ME! IT'S NOT FAAAAAAAAAAAIR! listen: they don't just have Mace. they have BIG FUCKING GUNS, OK? and clubs, and prisons, and fucking tanks. and in much of the developed world they really aren't shy about using them. ever seen how they clear out a riot in Germany, or the Netherlands? provoking people to use them is not a wise move, especially as nation-states in general become more centralized and authoritarian. playing in the streets as a fringe group won't change the world. HARD WORK will change the world. find arguments that will convince people who aren't already on your side, and which don't depend on simply demonizing the other side; propound them successfully. the USA is and has been for decades a center-right nation; most of the other Anglophone-European nations are lately trending likewise. if you want it to be different, make the case. i mean really make the case, not just try to sneak it by under cover of "i'm a moderate" like the Democratic Party keeps trying to do.

still not done with the thread, but i find that dubkitty is making all of the points i want to make with regards to this issue.

^I hear he's looking for a roomate.

The Mad Owl wrote:
still not done with the thread, but i find that dubkitty is making all of the points i want to make with regards to this issue.

then that makes you wrong as well

Christopher wrote:

The Mad Owl wrote:
still not done with the thread, but i find that dubkitty is making all of the points i want to make with regards to this issue.

then that makes you wrong as well

Solid argument

I don't think any profound changes to the system will occur soon. History teaches us that people are slooow, set in their ways and will put up with a lot to avoid the discomfort/insecurity of the boat being rocked too much. It's very easy to dismiss the protests on shallow grounds, therefore people will. Less cognitive effort. Like someone - well, almost - said previously, there's no three word, zero ambiguity slogan to throw in people's faces.

Christopher wrote:

The Mad Owl wrote:
still not done with the thread, but i find that dubkitty is making all of the points i want to make with regards to this issue.

then that makes you wrong as well

SLAM.

Ugh. I just read that the whole Occupy Wallstreet thing started with Adbusters. I look through that magazine every few months when it comes out at Whole Foods of all places, and I'm always like "Excellent idea there... if only you weren't just boo-fucking-hooing about it."

Nothing is going to change. Things are the way they are, and it will remain this way until something blows up. Like literally blows up. If a single member of the Occupy Wallstreet crowd has an iPhone (the very absolute trophy and beacon of American consumer society), then the movement has failed.

C

read through the whole thread.

yep, dubkitty and d.o.s. are spot on.

where i live, they are planning to occupy something this thursday.

everyone i know who is attending cannot tell me EXACTLY what they are going for...

i seem to know more about this damned thing, and i couldn't care less about it:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed- ... st-moveme/

The kids doing this have forgotten that no one owes them anything. They have no parallel in cause for revolution (and that's what these protests started as, a sad aping of the Arab Spring) - their families aren't being hauled off to the desert at midnight, shot, and left for the jackals. They aren't starving in the streets. They can vote. They can complain. They can protest. They can be foolish. Society even lets them pretend to be revolutionaries.

The protesters weren't out there when average Americans who owned stocks and bonds in GM were rendered valueless while the unions and the workers lost nothing in practice; it's ok apparently to rob from the elderly and the working class, as long as they're not siding with you politically.

Sadly, today's protesters have forgotten (or maybe never learned) something.

You earn your standing in society; you earn unemployment. You earn disability. You earn your rights.

You earn it by working, sometimes in crappy jobs, sometimes by public service. Sometimes you put your life on the line in the armed forces for the public good. But any way around, you earn it.

Those crappy jobs encourage you to better yourself and to not make the same mistakes again and to value what you have.

Don't like the pollution or politics or whatever it is where you live? That's why we have 50 states - you can pick somewhere more amenable to your needs, requirements, and budget. Not everyone can live like a king in sunny Los Angeles or the nice parts of Brooklyn, and let's face it, most people won't ever get to that point.

If your parents told you you could be President, or a special little snowflake, et cetera, it's their fault by not telling you how unlikely it was to happen. Society owes nothing more than 'don't starve, don't live in the streets', and even that's a relatively new part of the social contract.

If you want something, you can work for it, slowly, painfully, trade up to it, buy used, etc. Skip the fancy new car, cancel the cell phone and the cable and focus on what you want.

I earned under the poverty line last year and want for nothing in practice; I eat, I have acceptable, if small, accommodations, I have a small amount of discretionary income, and can trade up on collectibles, guns, and guitars to get something else I want if I'm willing to sacrifice something for it. My medical care sucks, but what i haven't isn't treatable or curable, all that medicine gets me are rare pain medication and occasional antibiotics. I skip the former becuase I prefer a clear head 99.9% of the time, and the latter I can order discretely and handle myself. I know what my flareup looks like, and how to stop it, and what to do if it doesn't respond in time. It sucks to be sick and disabled in this or any other country; it sucks to be 'poor' - but the fact is that being poor here is better than being poor anywhere else.

These protesters need to take responsibility for their lives, their communities, and their futures - if they don't like Wall Street, fine. Start their own businesses catering to their niches, and build something that's an alternative.

Don't expect Mommy to take other people's stuff away because it's not fair.

Because when that happens, the kids in the crowd with enough disposable income to afford to travel to protest, to have cell phones and shiny new digital devices and nice clothes will have to answer to the actual poor.

If this is class warfare, it's the spoiled middle class thrashing out against those both above and beneath them - god forbid the suburban Lord Fontelroy has to eat a chicken sandwich.

^yes.

Geez. This thread is a bitterness factory.

The Mad Owl wrote:everyone i know who is attending cannot tell me EXACTLY what they are going for...

Kills me. I've spoken to several of my friends that support these things and a disturbing number of them think that what they're protesting is that "1% of the population controls 99% of the wealth." Good job knowing the facts...

rfurtkamp wrote:The kids doing this have forgotten that no one owes them anything. They have no parallel in cause for revolution (and that's what these protests started as, a sad aping of the Arab Spring) - their families aren't being hauled off to the desert at midnight, shot, and left for the jackals. They aren't starving in the streets. They can vote. They can complain. They can protest. They can be foolish. Society even lets them pretend to be revolutionaries.

The protesters weren't out there when average Americans who owned stocks and bonds in GM were rendered valueless while the unions and the workers lost nothing in practice; it's ok apparently to rob from the elderly and the working class, as long as they're not siding with you politically.

Sadly, today's protesters have forgotten (or maybe never learned) something.

You earn your standing in society; you earn unemployment. You earn disability. You earn your rights.

You earn it by working, sometimes in crappy jobs, sometimes by public service. Sometimes you put your life on the line in the armed forces for the public good. But any way around, you earn it.

Those crappy jobs encourage you to better yourself and to not make the same mistakes again and to value what you have.

Don't like the pollution or politics or whatever it is where you live? That's why we have 50 states - you can pick somewhere more amenable to your needs, requirements, and budget. Not everyone can live like a king in sunny Los Angeles or the nice parts of Brooklyn, and let's face it, most people won't ever get to that point.

If your parents told you you could be President, or a special little snowflake, et cetera, it's their fault by not telling you how unlikely it was to happen. Society owes nothing more than 'don't starve, don't live in the streets', and even that's a relatively new part of the social contract.

If you want something, you can work for it, slowly, painfully, trade up to it, buy used, etc. Skip the fancy new car, cancel the cell phone and the cable and focus on what you want.

I earned under the poverty line last year and want for nothing in practice; I eat, I have acceptable, if small, accommodations, I have a small amount of discretionary income, and can trade up on collectibles, guns, and guitars to get something else I want if I'm willing to sacrifice something for it. My medical care sucks, but what i haven't isn't treatable or curable, all that medicine gets me are rare pain medication and occasional antibiotics. I skip the former becuase I prefer a clear head 99.9% of the time, and the latter I can order discretely and handle myself. I know what my flareup looks like, and how to stop it, and what to do if it doesn't respond in time. It sucks to be sick and disabled in this or any other country; it sucks to be 'poor' - but the fact is that being poor here is better than being poor anywhere else.

These protesters need to take responsibility for their lives, their communities, and their futures - if they don't like Wall Street, fine. Start their own businesses catering to their niches, and build something that's an alternative.

Don't expect Mommy to take other people's stuff away because it's not fair.

Because when that happens, the kids in the crowd with enough disposable income to afford to travel to protest, to have cell phones and shiny new digital devices and nice clothes will have to answer to the actual poor.

If this is class warfare, it's the spoiled middle class thrashing out against those both above and beneath them - god forbid the suburban Lord Fontelroy has to eat a chicken sandwich.

^ this, although the dreamer in me wishes it were otherwise. Actually a good amount of of what Dub and D.O.S said as well. But then I lost "hope" back in the 2002 primary when it was reported that more people voted of 'merican idol then in a real election