raising kids without gender

[Jero]

Spaceritual: get back to me with anything you have to say when you've done anything whatsoever in life other than break your parents' hearts.

.....Does fucking your ex wife count????

You fuzzed your ex wife or Dubsteps?

[SPACERITUAL]

Spaceritual: get back to me with anything you have to say when you've done anything whatsoever in life other than break your parents' hearts.

.....Does fucking your ex wife count????

You fuzzed your ex wife or Dubsteps?

BOTH. AT THE SAME TIME. PLUS DOME. AYOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MY LIFE IS BRO

[dubkitty]

Oh, and that shit Dubkitty was saying isn't "borderline" racist. To use your logic against you, at some point we actually have to make a judgement about how things really are. Like when old men are racist. Like you.

just because you assert something in lieu of substantive argument doesn't make it true.

in the first place, i never said or implied that all members of any group--for the record, Muslims are not a race--engage in negative behaviors which are accepted parts of those cultures. nor did i say, as people implied above as a red herring to distract from the actual issue, that a majority of crimes in California are examples of the imported negative cultural behaviors i cited. however, a minority of people from ANY culture will inevitably bring the negative aspects of their culture with them when they come to another culture; i don't doubt that the very people so enthusiastic to call me "racist" for pointing this out in regard to e.g. Muslims in the US and Europe will gleefully blame Europeans for e.g. the slave trade in Africa (despite the historical fact that the slave trade in Africa was run by Muslim Arabs and black Africans and existed for centuries before black people were sold as slaves to Northern Europeans) and similarly blame the conquistadors for their negative affects on Mesoamerica. it's your double standard, in which Western Europeans are always the evildoers while the rest of the worlds' cultures are Rousseau's innocents, which is in fact racist. now please feel free to slander me apace, because i've explained this enough.

[Jwar]

This thread sucks.

[Caesar]

This thread sucks.

I'm willing to hold out to see if it swallows.

[dubkitty]

i'm now trying to return to our regular program; i would have just let it go, but i'm not going to let Nazi shit go unanswered. i'm used to chickenshit argument on the Internet, but i at least back up my ad hominems with actual facts.

Nobody called you a Nazi. You just assumed the joke about people taking internet arguments seriously was aimed at you.

In fact, the discussion didn't become politically polarized until you made it such. You should apologize for derailing an interesting discussion.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion here. I mentioned the parents' political affiliations, which were clearly mentioned in their articles, as part of my indictment of their overall philosophy, which i find erroneous. as i said earlier, i feel that other folks became hysterically defensive when i did so.

in a thread awhile back someone wondered what you had to do to offend the ILF hive mind. i found out. disagree with the prevailing kneejerk stances--which is to say, the stances a small group of people impose by using shout-em-down tactics typical of Leftists on Internet forums--regarding religion, politics, and/or social issues. it really reminds me of the days when i had to deal with Jesus Freaks, as they called themselves back when guitarists had coily cords that weren't ironic reissues...i realized at a certain point that the most evangelical of the evangelical weren't trying to convince me, they were trying to convince themselves.

but that doesn't excuse my temper, which is what i came here to talk about before i had to deal with having the slander taken up another notch. shit really has sucked lately. again, NOT AN EXCUSE. since i think you've been generally fair and impartial in these discussions, Caesar, i take your point and apologize for my part in this pile of steaming shit. people will hold this against me forever, i suppose, but that's all right. i didn't come here to make BFFs, i came here to acquire and to share information.

which, contra Mr. Chief, i've actually done. as well as tried to contribute to technical and musical discussions to the best of my ability, review equipment which i own, offer support to people who are in pain, and admire and support the work of builders. i really don't have to justify myself to him or anybody else, but i'm just going to have that on the record for anyone who may stumble across this in the future.

i might take a break. or i might not. i pretty much don't give a shit at the moment. but i'm through explaining myself for now. take it or leave it or have a kiss or fuck right off, it don't matter to me. either way is fine; conciliatory is better, but i can live with the other.

[bubstance]

.

[devnulljp]

I get the feeling we're about to start in on the War on Christmas any minute now.

[bubstance]

.

[dubkitty]

I get the feeling we're about to start in on the War on Christmas any minute now.

i'm trying to stop arguing. must you continue to try and keep it going?

[Blackened Soul]

Oh, and that shit Dubkitty was saying isn't "borderline" racist. To use your logic against you, at some point we actually have to make a judgement about how things really are. Like when old men are racist. Like you.

just because you assert something in lieu of substantive argument doesn't make it true.

in the first place, i never said or implied that all members of any group--for the record, Muslims are not a race--engage in negative behaviors which are accepted parts of those cultures. nor did i say, as people implied above as a red herring to distract from the actual issue, that a majority of crimes in California are examples of the imported negative cultural behaviors i cited. however, a minority of people from ANY culture will inevitably bring the negative aspects of their culture with them when they come to another culture; i don't doubt that the very people so enthusiastic to call me "racist" for pointing this out in regard to e.g. Muslims in the US and Europe will gleefully blame Europeans for e.g. the slave trade in Africa (despite the historical fact that the slave trade in Africa was run by Muslim Arabs and black Africans and existed for centuries before black people were sold as slaves to Northern Europeans) and similarly blame the conquistadors for their negative affects on Mesoamerica. it's your double standard, in which Western Europeans are always the evildoers while the rest of the worlds' cultures are Rousseau's innocents, which is in fact racist. now please feel free to slander me apace, because i've explained this enough.

You see, to you everything you say is perfectly rational and the way things are and should be.
Hows this?
Everything you bring up in ^ I am aware of.
Everything you have said I have heard others say.
And therefore I find it all very uninteresting.
You use the same tired wording I see time and time again.
Said with such conviction.
Why should anyone bother to discuss then?
I want new ideas.

And that is how I actually feel, take it or leave it for I don't care

[Caesar]

I think it was this post that fanned the flames

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=17559#p256794

You have agreed to participate in a community. You have done it enough to underastand the mores of the comunity. We are artists and very very very liberal(as artists tend to be). A better response in keeping with your ideology might have been:"

it figures. when you read the article, you see that the parents are bog-standard extreme Leftists, i.e. followers of a philosophy organized around one false principle: the idea that human nature is changeable and perfectable. so it follows for them that if you raise a child in a non-gendered way, they'll turn out not to be gendered. it's yet another example of the basic psychotic break that Leftism has with reality; if you change the name of something or control the way it's viewed you still don't change its reality or its essential nature.

now, i'm not a partisan for traditional sex roles...far from it. but this kind of "you're not EITHER" business is just insane, i'm sorry.

This would have been more informative than oppositional. It think anyone here would accept you're disagreement. I think the parents are douchebags, but your rhetoric forces a confrontation from people not in confrontation with you. In any reasoned debate, you have to understand you're audience. It's as clear as the balls on TroySanders chin.

[Caesar]

I'll stop. Fuzz on fags!

[dubkitty]

You see, to you everything you say is perfectly rational and the way things are and should be.
Hows this?
Everything you bring up in ^ I am aware of.
Everything you have said I have heard others say.
And therefore I find it all very uninteresting.
You use the same tired wording I see time and time again.
Said with such conviction.
Why should anyone bother to discuss then?
I want new ideas.

And that is how I actually feel, take it or leave it for I don't care

i didn't say it was or is the way things should be. that's where you're misunderstanding me. whether i like it or not--and on either the pleasant or ugly side of the response curve there are reasons i don't particularly like it--"the way it is" is different than the way things perhaps "should be." not that i know how things should be as different to how they are now, or necessarily think anyone else does either. on the other hand, this whole parenting concept is weird to me because despite the "letting them choose" aspects it seems as described to be intended to prepare those children for the way their parents think things ought to be rather than the way it is, and i think this does a gross disservice to those kids because they're not going to be living in "ought to be." once those kids are grown they'll take the reins, and then they'll decide how their world should be, but until they have that opportunity they're going to have to deal with the conditions that currently exist. they're the ones that are then going to supply the new ideas you want in response to those conditions, if anyone will. you know?

[dubkitty]

i have to quit. this is taking too much out of my brain at a time when i got no brain to spare. you guys go on ahead. Caesar, your second point is also taken.