Well, at least, they're releasing the Amelia Earhart files...

[snipelfritz]

I am actually pretty excited for the prospect of a brokered convention from a wonk perspective.

Oh, I totally am. I wanna see the GOP buurrrnnnn.

[John]

See that's what's interesting about Trump. He does have a base of obviously racist people, but I've seen other folks of all kinds of ethnicities backing him as well. I mean, Ben Carson for crying out loud Endorses him now. That's just bizarre.

If you play ball in the campaign now, you get a job later. And racist people always need an Uncle Tom to show that they're not racist.

Yeah Carson is not representative of ethnicity. You have to actually be someone who walks down the street or drives their own car to get racially profiled. Carson ain't exactly a trill ass negro. Money and connections can buy privilege. Carson doesn't speak for a race by any means, and definitely not for "the struggle."

Does anyone speak for the collective whole of any race? I didn't know that.

So by your definition, in order to be white, I have to most likely be a redneck and fly a confederate flag?

I think john was saying the opposite of that, that no one speaks for a collective race or identity group, but that Carson is wildly detached from the average black experience that white Trump supporters are assigning to him.

This. There's nothing special about Carson endorsing Trump for any reason really, and his ethnicity is definitely not a notable factor considering how uninterested he seems to be in representing African Americans.

No need to head butt anything or anybody, jwar

[Invisible Man]

I'm trying to picture a riot of angry trump supporters if he gets shut out by the rnc. A bunch of geriatric white people setting out to torch a taco bell because they think that's where you find the mexicans who have stolen their precious america. At some point they decide to just order quesolupas and baja blast because you can't race war on an empty stomach.

This makes me happy,

I wish they were all elderly racists and not the 24yo jerkoffs I wiped from my facebook because their profile pic is a confederate flag

Yeah, I am perpetually surprised at Trump's demographic info. Some people just want to watch the world burn.

[Mudfuzz]

I'm trying to picture a riot of angry trump supporters if he gets shut out by the rnc. A bunch of geriatric white people setting out to torch a taco bell because they think that's where you find the mexicans who have stolen their precious america. At some point they decide to just order quesolupas and baja blast because you can't race war on an empty stomach.

This makes me happy,

I wish they were all elderly racists and not the 24yo jerkoffs I wiped from my facebook because their profile pic is a confederate flag

Yeah, I am perpetually surprised at Trump's demographic info. Some people just want to watch the world burn.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nNBVHxGODE[/youtube]

[Jwar]

See that's what's interesting about Trump. He does have a base of obviously racist people, but I've seen other folks of all kinds of ethnicities backing him as well. I mean, Ben Carson for crying out loud Endorses him now. That's just bizarre.

If you play ball in the campaign now, you get a job later. And racist people always need an Uncle Tom to show that they're not racist.

Yeah Carson is not representative of ethnicity. You have to actually be someone who walks down the street or drives their own car to get racially profiled. Carson ain't exactly a trill ass negro. Money and connections can buy privilege. Carson doesn't speak for a race by any means, and definitely not for "the struggle."

Does anyone speak for the collective whole of any race? I didn't know that.

So by your definition, in order to be white, I have to most likely be a redneck and fly a confederate flag?

I think john was saying the opposite of that, that no one speaks for a collective race or identity group, but that Carson is wildly detached from the average black experience that white Trump supporters are assigning to him.

This. There's nothing special about Carson endorsing Trump for any reason really, and his ethnicity is definitely not a notable factor considering how uninterested he seems to be in representing African Americans.

No need to head butt anything or anybody, jwar

Hah. I get what you're saying. I think I just read it wrong. No hard feelings. Carson definitely is a soft spoken man. I kind of like him though, so that's why I mentioned him. He's a bit of an idiot in some respects but in others, I did like him.



I do want to point out something. You can't say all Trump supporters are racist, that is just ignorant. I'm not a Trump supporter, but if it's between him and Hillary, I will vote for Trump. Why? Because based on all the tests I've taken over the last several months, our views on things match up the closets. Does that mean I'm racist? No, not at all. There are lots of people who support him who are not racist. Now, obviously the media is going to highlight the retards that are racist. Why wouldn't they?? Makes for good TV. Plus they are doing everything they can to stop him.

That's like saying all Bernie Sanders supporters are lazy pot head hippies, or young kids on a bandwagon that don't want to work and want free handouts. Not true right? But that's the way a lot of people view it. I don't view it that way. I think that he wants to give away a tad too much, but he does have some great ideas.

So what I'm saying is you can't make rash generalizations. It's just ridiculous.

[friendship]

How would you reconcile not having racist beliefs with supporting a confirmed bigot with obliquely racist policies?

[Faldoe]

Identity politics are fun.

Carson is on the side of Trump because they both share this destain for the GOP establishment. Surely it is a political move as much as it is a truly believed (if it really is) ideological stance on their part.

It's funny how black conservative voices are always left out of much of the Left's reporting. And black conservatives often get branded as "uncle Toms" and such for being conservatives. Those on the left won't listen and engage in an argument with them as to why they are conservative. They are just somehow "misguided." It's sad stuff.

What exactly is the "average black experience?" Is there for sure a set, definable one? Or does it depend on who you observe and how you (and they) understand their situation to have arisen?

Carson is spot on about political correctness. I don't agree with him on too much else.

White liberals are too scared to say anything critical of any "people of color's" movements - even if in good intentions in terms of critique - for fear of being called a racist. So liberals tend to just side with the groups and messages coming from the left and accepting the narratives without question. The rise of right-wing and far right movements in the US and in Europe is a result of political correctness.

[Wes Mantooth]

Well your Bernie side of the metaphor isn't quite accurate. He's not saying he wants all people to get handouts he's saying he would tax people differently and divert funds from other areas to make things more equitable for Americans who have systematically been oppressed. So this is based off of a miscommunication or misinterpretation of ideas. No one is misinterpreting want Trump wants and how he plans to accomplish it.

Trump on the other hand is openly racist and xenophobic and his supporters rally behind the most abhorrent of his openly racist policies. There's no miscommunication there, you know exactly what you're getting with Trump. He doesn't openly say that he's a racist person but you can tell he is by his policies and how he treats people of color, how he treats women and how treats others of different faiths. I'm not talking about his supporters being card-carrying Klan members, I'm talking about the 'nice' bigots who are personable in dealings with people who have oppressed identities in this country but openly support policies that hurt that them and their safety. When I'm talking racism I'm not talking about interpersonal prejudice, I'm talking about the institutionalized, systemic and systematic racism that prevails in our country today. Trump openly supports those types of policies and as do his supporters by proxy of supporting him. There's not really wiggle room there is there? I'm not making rash generalizations, I'm observing that if a candidate is running as a facist xenophobe, like that's literally his platform, then he's attracting supporters with similar beliefs.

I know this is pointless post because you've demonstrated already in this thread being closed off to any viewpoints that oppose your beliefs but c'mon you're seriously going to vote for an idiot who has drummed up most of his support by saying he's going to make Mexico pay for a wall? That's some childish shit.


That said, at least he's not Ted Cruz, that dude is even fucking worse and could do way more damage than Trump could because he's just an idiot politician. Cruz on the other hand can really rally the religious fanatics on the right and actually pass some very damaging proposals.

[Jwar]

I am open minded about the political beliefs but not abortion which has been stated and I know that bothers all of you for whatever reason. I give a fuck?

I would vote for Sanders over Trump but he's not going to get the candidacy. So it's Hillary or Trump. I will never vote for that horrible woman, so what choice am I left with?

I don't even agree with the wall shit! There are so many other issues.

I'm not a liberal. I'm a moderate and have more values that add up with a Rebulican candidate at this point.

Should I change my opinion because the folks on an Internet forum told me I'm wrong? Would that make sense?


I'm done taking about this. You can do what you want, I'll do what I want. This thread is stupid at this point anyway. No one can have differing opinions without it being wrong.

[Strange Tales]

Take solace in knowing this is all worthless and we'll all die.

[D.o.S.]

White liberals are too scared to say anything critical of any "people of color's" movements - even if in good intentions in terms of critique - for fear of being called a racist. So liberals tend to just side with the groups and messages coming from the left and accepting the narratives without question. The rise of right-wing and far right movements in the US and in Europe is a result of political correctness.

LMAO that's bullshit. The rise of right wing politics on a national level almost always correlates to, briefly, perceived erosion of national identity in the face of worldwide concerns. That's the historical model, and that's true today.

[D.o.S.]

I think if you use the phrase 'political correctness' in 2016 you should be castrated and barred from communicating with anyone else for being totally fucking braindead, and you're probably just a blight on productive society by virtue of your very existence.

How's that for 'non-offensive' language? Because typically when people rail against political correctness, they're actually railing against the idea that their notions should be challenged and open to critique, funnily enough.


See, it's easy enough to be inflammatory on any side of this issue. What it isn't, generally, is productive.

[snipelfritz]

Alright, calling Ben Carson an Uncle Tom wasn't fair. He doesn't really talk that much about race issues. Frankly I'm not sure what he talks about. People pointing to him as some anecdotal evidence that Donald Trump isn't racist is just stupid however. There will always be an anomaly.

David Clarke is a good example of an Uncle Tom.

If Trump were running strictly on a trade platform, I'd totally accept him as a protest candidate. I wouldn't respect him as a serious candidate, but I'd respect what he had to say. However, his ideas on torture, foreign policy and international law are repugnant and immediately disqualify him. As stupid as I think the wall is in general, he could speak with some nuance and say our trade deficit would cover the cost or something. But that get's down to the core of why I despise Trump and it's so difficult for me to respect his supporters: He doesn't speak in a nuanced or linear way. He speaks in broad talking points; he only repeats the things he knows his supporters want to hear; he uses dogwhistles and passive-aggressive tactics in order to clearly suggest something but then backpedal when anyone tries to call him out on it; he uses insane 8th grade rhetorical tactics to avoid being held responsible for HIS OWN WORDS.

Now, I realize everyone values different issues differently. But what it comes down to is this, he speaks in a way that I can't imagine appealing to smart people. I know the casual prejudice in white, rural America. I grew up around it. It's very familiar to me. The subtle jabs, things that wouldn't be said in "mixed company" and when I hear Trump speak, my ears burn. I know why people are so enthusiastic about him: blind and stupid hate.

That isn't to say you can honestly think his ideas are good (then we'll have to disagree), but his rhetoric is the thing that really says the most about him to me, and it's all bad. Very bad.

(I could go on a tangent in the middle of this about how all conservativism is inherently xenophobic, but I need to get my bootybutt ready for work)

[John]

What exactly is the "average black experience?" Is there for sure a set, definable one?

There are averages. Carson does not fit into those averages.

The rise of right-wing and far right movements in the US and in Europe is a result of political correctness.

This is incredibly stupid. It's like saying the rise of sexual assaults is the result of the rise of hemlines on skirts.

[John]

I do want to point out something. You can't say all Trump supporters are racist, that is just ignorant. I'm not a Trump supporter, but if it's between him and Hillary, I will vote for Trump. Why? Because based on all the tests I've taken over the last several months, our views on things match up the closets. Does that mean I'm racist? No, not at all.

Your logic is flawed because you are saying

-Trump supporters are not all racist
-I am not a Trump supporter
-I am not racist

The logical conclusion to that is that Trump supporters are not you. But you are asserting that they are not racist by virtue of you being not racist, even though you claim not to be a Trump supporter (Even though you claim you will vote for Trump). This just doesn't hold water.

Your argument that you are not racist but would vote for Trump is not provable because there is really no way to prove you are not racist. The only evidence we have pro or con that argument is that you would vote for Trump, who espouses and exploits racist viewpoints and policies. Therefore you support racism by proxy.

People who say "Hillary is so awful that I'm gonna vote Trump, how bad could it be" are clearly living or perceive themselves to live a life of privilege, exempt from the horrors that a Republican presidency and Congress would bring upon anyone who makes $100,000 or less a year, or who has brown skin, or who publicly disagrees with Trump (based on his claims of shutting down the press etc.), or who lives in a country with oil or any other resource we feel like tapping. If it's bad now, it's going to get worse. It is heartless and small-minded to ignore the effect a Trump presidency would have on the less-fortunate, and it's close enough to being racist. At the least you should consider yourself to have a severe case of cognitive dissonance like your homey Ben Carson.