Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints



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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby Ugly Nora » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:47 pm

bennroe wrote:
Ugly Nora wrote:But the problem is, by calling for bans against Pussy Melter, and not something like the Big Muff, is you are still saying your values are more important than other people's values. That is to say, I gaurantee some woman somewhere is offened by the name Big Muff. First of all, not only is it a pussy reference, but the majority of women shave these days. So, it is also an old outdated stereotypical pussy reference. But you (and I am using you in the generic sense by the way), for whatever reason are not offended by the name Big Muff. So, you drew a line in the sand and said Pussy Melter is bad, and Big Muff is good. Why does your value system get to decide that for me? Why can't I decided what is good and what is bad for me?


I can't tell how much of this argument you actually believe, and how much is meant to be provocative, but nobody is trying to decide what's good or bad for you, because it isn't about you. In fact, I doubt anyone would make a fuss at all if the toneprint went back up on the site with a different name and description and no association with Satchel, because it isn't about the toneprint either. It's about marketing in ways that indicate to women that they're not part of the club. You're right that being opposed to that infringes on the values of others, but only if their values include the belief that women should leave playing guitar to the men. Do you believe sexism is a value that should be tolerated? The Big Muff has nothing to do with any of this, regardless of the origins of its name (which I frankly doubt have much to do with female anatomy), because vaginas aren't the issue. As far as I'm aware, Sovtek and EHX never marketed the Big Muff by saying anything like "muff-expanding tone to help you get between her legs". That would be problematic. I've never heard anyone complain that hearing the name of that pedal made them feel excluded, but maybe I'm off-base.

Ugly Nora wrote:Do you want to know the real reason people are attacking Pussy Melter and not Big Muff? It's because the Pussy Melter pedal/algorithm or whatever it is probably sounds like crap and is most likely never going to be used by anybody. In other words, there is little to personally lose by having it banned. On the other hand, probably half the people complaining about the Pussy Melter use, or have used a Big Muff or Big Muff clone and it is a core component of a lot of people's sound. Therefore, there is a lot to personally lose if that was banned. Heck, doesn't Dwarfcraft have a pedal based on a Big Muff?


Nobody gives a fuck about how the toneprint sounds because it's not at issue. If the Big Muff had been called the Pussy Melter or otherwise marketed as women-need-not-apply, there would be outrage over it too. I can't say how history would have been altered, but I'm sure the circuit would have perservered under a different name for the reasons you mentioned. I'm not sure why you think that amounts to hypocrysy on anyone's part.

Ugly Nora wrote:The ironic thing about this whole situation is that if this uproar didn't occur, it wouldn't have been a blip on anyones radar and would have died a quiet death on its own because it was just plain stupid. But thanks to the "Streisand effect", Steel Panther is probably more popular than ever. TC Electronics, probably not so much though. They'll probably take a bit of a sales hit.


This not being a blip would have been way more insidious, because many woman who stumbled upon it would have been made to feel shitty and/or quietly question their involvement in a hobby they likely enjoy. Blowing this up in a spectacle shows those women it's not something guitar culture at-large will tolerate anymore, which is great.


Big Muff is very relevant to the discussion, because our resident expert of how we should all think, feel and act said:

aens_wife wrote:So when a company makes a "joke" like this with a product, what they are saying is that they don't give a fuck who is uncomfortable with said joke. That generally shakes out to them not caring about women's thoughts on this stuff. Sure, some women don't care. But everyone knows that *some* women do care. A lot. By making these jokes, companies are telling women that they do not prioritize them as customers - that they want the men who will laugh at that joke more than they want the women who will not.


So, by this logic, as long as one woman cares about the name Big Muff and thinks it is distasteful or sexist or whatever, that should be cause for alarm and indicative that the company doesn't care about females.

And again, the reason for the lack of outrage towards the Big Muff, is because it would be too inconvenient for the outrage brigade to do so because they use the product. It is easy to boycott and be outraged by stuff that has no impact on you if it disappears. It is not so easy to do so when it will actually require sacrifice on your part.
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby Benn Roe » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:39 pm

I'm not dealing in hypotheticals here. Do you know any women who take issue with the Big Muff? What aens_wife said was "everyone knows that *some* women do care". This is about exercising your empathy and understanding that your words and actions have consequences for other people's lives, not about imagining indignation where none exists. Is it possible someone is being negatively impacted by the name Big Muff? Sure, and I wouldn't take issue with them taking the matter into their own hands. I've never met anyone who seemed bothered by the name, and applying context and common sense doesn't get me there, but if someone told me that name was an obstacle to their happiness, I'd hear them out. I'd sacrifice the Big Muff in a heartbeat if it seemed like it was disenfranchising people.
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby frodog » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:01 pm

If someone seriously told me that the name Big Muff was "an obstacle to their happiness" I would have a very hard time containing my laughter.
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby BetterOffShred » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:47 pm

frodog wrote:If someone seriously told me that the name Big Muff was "an obstacle to their happiness" I would have a very hard time containing my laughter.

Word! :lol:
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby Benn Roe » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:17 pm

Well, that's why I think it's a silly counterpoint in this discussion. Pussy Melter is obviously problematic, and everyone realizes people will be affected by it (even if they don't think that warrants any action being taken), but Big Muff feels like a stretch. It doesn't evoke any empathy in me. I've been wrong before, though, so I try to keep an open mind.
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby Lurker13 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:32 pm

I'm kind of surprised the Way Huge Aqua Puss hasn't come up yet.
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby comesect2.0 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:49 pm

fish bottom or top thread
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby coupleonapkins » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:50 pm

Lurker13 wrote:I'm kind of surprised the Way Huge Aqua Puss hasn't come up yet.

Chankgeez wrote:Didn't Parliament say "Upsize the Downsize Stroke" or something like that? :idk: :snax:


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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby Jero » Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:51 am

frodog wrote:If someone seriously told me that the Big Muff was "an obstacle to their happiness" I would have a very hard time containing my laughter.

Considering how much time/money some of us have likely spent trying different ones...I think it's true :p
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby _themissingshade_ » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:45 am

repoman wrote:Outrage is peoples hobby these days.
Its never rooted in anything virtuous to be offended by shit like this.
It's rooted in control, people that would spend the time to get this pedal changed do not care about any sort of problems it would potentially cause (they make those up anyways), its about the ability to control other people because businesses cave all the time in this day and age from outside pressure with the internet and all. Now they get to masturbate their ego a bit from having a tiny, tiny part of impacting something greater than themselves. Getting a guitar pedal with a dumb name changed. So brave.
The sorts of people that pursue these courses of action are deeply perverse and hollow.


Translation: "I don't like that other people are offended by things that don't offend me because despite their fair and rational reasons, I would prefer them not to challenge the status quo which I have unconsciously enjoyed the benefits of; also, I miss the days when fewer people were held accountable for their insensitivity and acts of blatant disrespect because that disrespect has rarely been directed at me and now I feel personally attacked for wanting a double standard of free speech."
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby _themissingshade_ » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:16 am

The question shouldn't be "is X offensive to person Y?" but rather, "is X the kind of thing that someone should probably know better than to say in the current sociopolitical climate?" In the current sociopolitical climate, we should fucking know better than to make lame jokes at women's expense regardless of how some women will be okay with it.
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby ProCarsteNation » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:25 am

bennroe wrote:
ProCarsteNation wrote:
cherler wrote:You can't see the difference between naming a beer dick smasher and this add? There's a pretty huge difference, besides which genitalia are referenced.


well dang, I'm not sure I can...? Do I lack some context?
What makes it more OK for a dick to be smashed than a pussy to be melted?
If anything, wouldn't the melting be pleasurable for the pussy but the smashing quite painful for the dick?
Then again anything done to anatomy can be consensually & pleasurably done for some people, so more power to them


The context you're lacking is that nobody has ever told a man that he should leave beer-drinking to the women, and if they had, the name dick smasher likely wouldn't reinforce that for him. Hell, if anything it implies that drinking it will smash your dick because it's so strong, or whatever, which arguably puts it in the same camp as pussy melter in that its target audience is (seemingly thoughtlessly) men. Women HAVE historically been made to feel that rock music is played by men, and that their only meaningful means of contribution is to swoon and open their legs.



Ah! I think I get it now:
I CAN DRINK DICK SMASHER CAUSE MY DICK STROOONG :animal: NOT LIKE YOU PUNY PENIS!!!
Thanks for putting that into context/perspective for me :hug:
Last edited by ProCarsteNation on Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby ProCarsteNation » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:27 am

edit: poste doublé
Last edited by ProCarsteNation on Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby Sonaboy » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:22 am

Freedom, or oppression? Mike Matthews don't really care neither, maaaaan

https://www.ehx.com/blog/1971-mike-matthews-freedom-amp

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Re: Are we angry about this? - TC TonePrint Complaints

Postby D.o.S. » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:49 am

_themissingshade_ wrote:
repoman wrote:Outrage is peoples hobby these days.
Its never rooted in anything virtuous to be offended by shit like this.
It's rooted in control, people that would spend the time to get this pedal changed do not care about any sort of problems it would potentially cause (they make those up anyways), its about the ability to control other people because businesses cave all the time in this day and age from outside pressure with the internet and all. Now they get to masturbate their ego a bit from having a tiny, tiny part of impacting something greater than themselves. Getting a guitar pedal with a dumb name changed. So brave.
The sorts of people that pursue these courses of action are deeply perverse and hollow.


Translation: "I don't like that other people are offended by things that don't offend me because despite their fair and rational reasons, I would prefer them not to challenge the status quo which I have unconsciously enjoyed the benefits of; also, I miss the days when fewer people were held accountable for their insensitivity and acts of blatant disrespect because that disrespect has rarely been directed at me and now I feel personally attacked for wanting a double standard of free speech."


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