"FUCK YOU ALL" -Velvet Hammer (Re-Hollywood sucks)

[rustywire]

@DoS in Moore's case...there is a pattern suggesting high possibility crime[s] were committed and voters should def consider that when in the polls. As for the victims getting due process, perhaps it's time to reevaluate statutes of limitations for criminal action in such cases. Perhaps different, stricter rules for elected officials.

Franken is another example where a pattern has emerged and even more damning...multimedia evidence. However there seems to be widespread cognitive dissonance in critics of the former championing the latter.

Both are involved in politics [as elected officials] so they must be scrutinized and held to higher standard.
Similarly, it must be determined if ulterior motive is at play in any capacity. Sentiment akin to "however I can discredit political opposition is justified and acceptable" and/or "however I can advance my preferred political narrative is justified and acceptable" are both uncomfortable angles that must be examined and accounted for beyond reasonable doubt. Whenever ideology is involved, it seems to boil down to "do I personally like the individual/agree with them?" being the biggest qualifier of whether someone condemns/defends an accused perpetrator.

Mood:

[aens_wife]

Ok, but no one is talking about nooses in any of these cases. You are jumping the shark there. We just barely got to the point where women feel comfortable talking about how uncomfortable we have felt for years and years and years. This isn't a situation where we expect there to be criminal convictions of everyone. What I want is for men who behave badly at work and make women miserable get fired. Then I hope that causes people to think twice before they behave badly at work and everywhere. I want to have a conversation about our culture and what needs to change (IMO, lots).

I hate Moore for a million reasons unrelated to these allegations. I don't understand how changing statute of limitations would help here (or in most cases of rape/abuse/etc) because even when there is evidence, men get off easy and women are victimized again. Asking all victims to go through the justice system (which if fundamentally flawed and errs only toward carcercal state and not restorative justice/etc) is simply unacceptable for me. It doesn't fix what happened. It doesn't heal the women automatically. It doesn't really teach people how to behave better.

As far as politics, it is a trash fire. Whatever. It has been for years. But to boil down this whole movement to what is happening in politics is to minimize the experience of many women. I feel like you are missing the forest for the trees here.

[Jwar]

I agree that the statement you posted is not helpful to victims or to potential victims. Why in the actual fuck would they not want to press charges? Yes, you are going to be scrutinized in court because that is what happens in every court case, but it has to happen. To just ignore it and file it as a statistic (which is basically how I'm reading that) is extremely reckless and insane. Things will never, ever change if these monsters are not punished right.

I bet that people would think twice about rape if we castrated them in public and burned them at the stake. I'm all for that.

[aens_wife]

I'm gonna go back and edit my post bc I meant to say that I don't expect all women to press charges. Not that no one should press charges

Mostly I think that it depends on what happened, who it happened to, what kind of resources they have (financial, emotional, family), etc. I'd like to think that I'd have the strength to file charges if something happened to me, but I've heard enough stories about the cops in my town that I'm just not sure. It isn't easy and it isn't black and white

Also, I still don't think that we can solve this issue with violence. It requires a deep cultural change, not castration.

[Jwar]

I'm gonna go back and edit my post bc I meant to say that I don't expect all women to press charges. Not that no one should press charges

Mostly I think that it depends on what happened, who it happened to, what kind of resources they have (financial, emotional, family), etc. I'd like to think that I'd have the strength to file charges if something happened to me, but I've heard enough stories about the cops in my town that I'm just not sure. It isn't easy and it isn't black and white

Also, I still don't think that we can solve this issue with violence. It requires a deep cultural change, not castration.

I think it would be helpful if more women pressed charges though. No one I know did and I know that those bastards just got away with it and most likely went on to do it to someone else. If someone would have pressed charged, at very least the pieces of shit would be on the sex offender registry for the rest of their lives. There's not true justice in these situations but that's something I guess.

I actually disagree with not using violence. I know it won't solve the problem, but at the same time, I still believe in capital punishment and in my opinion this is the best way to do it. I want these people to suffer horrifically.


I'm sorry your city has shit bag police. It's sad to hear that the people who are supposed to protect and serve are monsters themselves.


That reminds me of a woman my sister fought to have terminated in a smaller town in Kansas.

This woman was a police officer who strip search a women in a parking lot, in front of her 4 or 5 year old child and did an anal cavity search. The woman bascially sodomized her. She has zero basis for any search or even to talk to her. She was ticketed for some stupid reason and left traumatized. My sister (Denise), who was a rape victim herself, found out about this and contacted the woman who this happened to. She started investigating and found out that the police officer who did this to this poor woman was let go from one of the neighboring cities for something similar and actually had a reputation for doing anal cavity searches on women in the field.

My sister made it her mission in life to get rid of this piece of filth and she also convinced the victim to sue the city. For the next several months she wrote every single member in city hall, including the major. She wrote the chief of police, the media...everyone. They showed up to my sisters house and tried to intimidate her into silence (the chief of police did this). She told him to go fuck himself (she is an extremely hostile person when need is there and is a black belt and not afraid of shit). They harassed her and her husband for six months, but she persisted in writing and writing and contacted media outlets.

What ended up happening was not only did that officer lose her job, but the chief of police was let go and the fucking major resigned! My sister pushed those fucking pieces of shit so goddamn hard and put so much media attention on them, they had no choice! Her life became hell in the city after that, so she move like 40 minutes away.

My point in sharing this is that she actually accomplished what a lot of people never would. She helped get some type of justice for that victim. It doesn't make up for it, but it sure made people feel just a little bit safer.

[Eivind August]

Your sister kicks ass, jwar! However, I don't think that we should expect all victims of sexual abuse to have the ability/will to fight the system, or even press charges. To relive the trauma can be hard enough in itself, but even more pressing is the cultural changes that needs to happen. My big takeaway from the Me Too-campaign is how many of these crimes happen in silence, that are in a way accepted because of power structures and cultural biases. It would be amazing if every victim would fight the system head on, but hardly realistic. What we are seeing, IMO, is that the victims have gained a voice through the action of some, thus making it easier to collectively address the problem. Each individual case is finally seen as part of a bigger problem, which might make it easier for individuals to finally come forth with their stories. Maybe. It will be interesting to see the aftermath.

(This is a ramble, please excuse any imprecise terms or weird wording.)

[Jwar]

You're totally right and I know that. It's not about being brave, it's about being beaten down by a shitty system that works against you. I wish that women in the country had a fair shake. Really they don't and we all know it. Our country is sexist, misogynist and generally an anti woman world. It's slowly changing, but some not nearly fast enough.

[aens_wife]

Your sister kicks ass, jwar! However, I don't think that we should expect all victims of sexual abuse to have the ability/will to fight the system, or even press charges.

Exactly this. Sometimes, depression/PTSD/trauma makes it impossible to fight. Sometimes it is just simply that they have a full time job and kids and an elderly parent to take care of. I am not sure I *could* take the time to go after someone like your sister did. If I did, I would have to sacrifice something else very important in my life. I am not making excuses, I am just telling the truth. There isn't any paid time off when you are self employed and no one to cover my stuff at work, so I would just be hitting the pause button and hoping my bank wouldn't take my house and cars, ya know?

Or the victims are harassed and threatened. Or they *do* report and are ignored or fired (see current Matt Lauer accusations).

And I don't believe that fixing a violent culture with violence is possible. It just doesn't make sense on a basic, logical level. Our overuse of the death penalty has NO deterrent effect on criminals. Our use of violent incarceration does not deter crime. It just creates a cycle of violence and abuse that certainly feeds in to the way we treat women, children, and elderly in our country. It doesn't work in any regard except to keep certainly populations in fear and to make rich people richer. Fuck the police. Fuck the prison system.

[Jwar]

I'll agree it isn't necessarily a deterrent, but lets look at it as a "ridding the world of one more scumbag" mind set instead. Then is makes logical sense. I would prefer that pedophiles be instantly shot or made to suffer just in the most god awful ways imaginable. It won't change that they were a pedophile but it will make them no longer exist. I'd gladly volunteer my time to taking these motherfuckers out. I know people who work to expose the underground sex trade and they've found 6 month old children that have spent their entire life being raped. At 6 months. I'd gladly kill the person/persons who did that to those children. In fact, some times they catch these folks and there's a few undocumented beat downs that happen. I can't say that it's justice but sometimes there is no possibility for true justice.

On the job thing. I feel you there. I'm self employees and am a property owner. I haven't gone on vacation for, fuck 3 years? Before that it was like 5 years. When I go to Minnesota to meet up with you all, that's my vacation. I'd love to go, but someone will call and say "fuck this went wrong", then I have to fix it. How can I do that if I'm somewhere else? It sucks. I'd have to rely on someone else but I can't.

[aens_wife]

I'll agree it isn't necessarily a deterrent, but lets look at it as a "ridding the world of one more scumbag" mind set instead. Then is makes logical sense. I would prefer that pedophiles be instantly shot or made to suffer just in the most god awful ways imaginable. It won't change that they were a pedophile but it will make them no longer exist. I'd gladly volunteer my time to taking these motherfuckers out. I know people who work to expose the underground sex trade and they've found 6 month old children that have spent their entire life being raped. At 6 months. I'd gladly kill the person/persons who did that to those children. In fact, some times they catch these folks and there's a few undocumented beat downs that happen. I can't say that it's justice but sometimes there is no possibility for true justice.

What I am saying is that violence creates more violence. You cannot stamp the bad guys out. It doesn't work that way. If it did, the US would be a god damn utopia. But it isn't, is it? It is a place where tens of thousands of people are shot every year. Our kids are bullied in schools. Women are in danger of men in almost all settings. Children are not given enough love, guidance, or boundaries. Violence in all places is the problem here. It can't be both good and bad. At least not for me.

[waltdogg]

it's odd. people claim we're entering a society that's too safe and sensitive. but really we're entering an even more violent state of society where a lot of gruesome truths are being brought to bare and it's making a lot of people unhappy and uncomfortable. all the while there are the people who have always been aware of these problems and are starting to present themselves in this new light that they aren't wrong for being victims, poor, or not white. which is making all the status-quo types to flurry and create a big noise about that which they have little understanding because someone has an opposing viewpoint that's becoming more widely accepted than their own.

i do not advocate violence. but i see it on the horizon coming from all directions. and there will be no cleansing, except maybe of the whole human race. but not of just the "bad" people. i'd kill my grandfather if i could. i'd kill everyone whoever laid an unwanted hand on my sisters. but violence is not the answer. and when the end comes, it will take us all.

[Kacey Y]

My personal opinion is that most of the people who complain that everything is too sensitive and safe now are, to put it as mild as possible, assholes. The kind of people that complain if you can't make fun of people, how will there be humor in the world anymore? If you can't say or do whatever you want to women without consequence...how will anyone ever date? The kind of stuff that makes you go "ahhhh, this person is used to functioning in the world we ACTUALLY live in, while we're trying to make it into how everyone SAYS it already is".

[waltdogg]

that's what i'm trying to get at. it's the people who are violence advocating status-quo, misogynistic fucks. typically baby boomers, who are the problem, and they're blaming it on the younger generation that's calling them out on all their bullshit.

[Kacey Y]

Yeah, I'm with you there. I'm full up on the attitude of "does everything have to be (racist/misogyny/harassment/assault/whatever) now??". Which I interpret as "I've change as much as I feel like, so everything I do is fine, you're just being whiny, stop bugging me". Meanwhile, the rest of us are like "Oh shit, I didn't even realize how bad that was, glad I know now, I'll try to keep that in mind". I considered myself pretty liberal, empathetic, open minded and accepting 20 years ago and I've evolved personally on these things A LOT in just the past few years. I welcome it, if I'm not constantly growing and improving myself, what am I doing? I don't identify with the people who think never changing is a virtue.

[rustywire]

Ok, but no one is talking about nooses in any of these cases. You are jumping the shark there. We just barely got to the point where women feel comfortable talking about how uncomfortable we have felt for years and years and years. This isn't a situation where we expect there to be criminal convictions of everyone. What I want is for men who behave badly at work and make women miserable get fired. Then I hope that causes people to think twice before they behave badly at work and everywhere. I want to have a conversation about our culture and what needs to change (IMO, lots).

I hate Moore for a million reasons unrelated to these allegations. I don't understand how changing statute of limitations would help here (or in most cases of rape/abuse/etc) because even when there is evidence, men get off easy and women are victimized again. Asking all victims to go through the justice system (which if fundamentally flawed and errs only toward carcercal state and not restorative justice/etc) is simply unacceptable for me. It doesn't fix what happened. It doesn't heal the women automatically. It doesn't really teach people how to behave better.

As far as politics, it is a trash fire. Whatever. It has been for years. But to boil down this whole movement to what is happening in politics is to minimize the experience of many women. I feel like you are missing the forest for the trees here.

IDK how culturally different things are in your neck of the woods but in the NYC area women trend toward in-yo-face attitudes. They pursue what they want, aggressively and unapologetically and mouths have little, if any filter.

My usage of "noose" is a metaphor, was not meant to be taken literally...you obv understand metaphors so it should go without saying no ramp was set up and no shark was jumped.
No disrespect, but you seem to have taken a fisheye-lens view of the trees. Sexual predation is not an issue of biological sex and/or gender. It is about power and control and above all satisfying a selfish appetite, fully unconcerned with the wellbeing of the other. I don't minimize the experiences of women by contextualizing them as being traumatic experiences not exclusive to women.

A specific example of "minimizing the experiences of women" is The 2017 Lena Dunham Experience. You know, how she went from "things women dont lie about: rape" to then "you should listen & believe every woman!" and now “our insider knowledge of Murray’s situation makes us confident that sadly this accusation is one of the 3% of assault cases that are misreported every year.”

I take care of the women...and men...in my life and I'm not about to support clear-cutting rainforest to get a *better* view of which trees may be rotten on the inside.