General discussion at the Wang Bar.
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:27 pm
As a rule I'm opposed to some types of socialist programs merely because some of them enable people too much. However, I'm for universal healthcare as long as I'm not taxed 50% of my income (because, like I can't afford that), free college (because fuck you system and school is some bullshit anyway), I'm for veteran retirement support (in most cases, some people do work the system here too and it's sad), rehabilitation in the prison systems....etc. There's a lot of good ones. A lot of shit ones too. I'm opposed to food stamps for instance because there's no good way to keep people from abusing them and they do abuse them like fucking crazy. When I worked at Whole Foods, I swear that a 1/3rd of our shoppers were on EBT. Now, how the hell is that fair? I couldn't even afford to shop there and I fucking worked there yet you have people buying caviar, prime rib and 18 dollar cuts of salmon. That shit doesn't make any fucking sense. Then those bastards from the United Nation of Islam would buy shit with EBT and tax exempt status just to turn around and return the shit without a receipt so they get the tax money back they didn't spend. Shit used to make me fucking fume.
It seems to me that the DNC is doing almost the same thing they did last time. Who will be the strongest candidate to face Trump and his onslaught? You know he's going to bring that shit hard this time, even worse than last time I'm sure. People will vote for him. I could honestly see him easily winning again.
Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:37 pm
Maybe I can claim refugee status and flee the country if that happens.
Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:45 pm
Biden has been essentially the same guy for the length of time he's been in office. He's middle-of-the-road, right-leaning Dem who has lots of support from unions/civil service sectors and lots of donor connections. His positions on social issues has improved somewhat, but he's still the same 70 year old white guy who struggles to reach young voters because his attitudes about gender/culture are outdated.
The whole "icky grandpa" stuff that got amplified recently is astroturf, as far as I'm concerned. Show me another guy who has been in politics over 40 years who DOESN'T have some question marks and asterisks next to his name regarding incidents, policy, statements, whatever. The GOP can cry wolf all they want, but at the end of the campaign, they still promote and support a guy with lots of question marks about how he makes money, how he treats women, and how much he understands about policy. They can't have it both ways.
He's not my pick, but if he got the nom, of course I would vote for him. He knows the game and he knows how to build out a competent administration. All the rumormongering about him is pointless outside of the election. He needs to pick a younger VP and create a strong-office architecture that puts actual power in the hands of that pick. It has to be someone that appeals to PTA moms AND disengaged voter blocks. That candidate won't be easy to find.
Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:26 am
That's why I still love to read this thread, so I can keep up with the how the lib-middle is thinking and make predictions based on how lazy, afraid of change and enabling to the alt right will keep chugging along making all the same problems worse. Meaning, ya'll are going to get Trump that 2nd term.
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:03 am
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:23 am
I really think he will win. I never would have thought so before but I do now. He's a master manipulator. I've been saying this forever, but people underestimate the guys intelligence. He is not stupid. He's calculated and cunning. Like a snake. Soooooooooo....
I'm voting for The Rock.
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:38 pm
Nah, he's a total moron. Most of his tactical advantage comes from blindsiding people with moves so ludicrously uncunning, nobody would've thought them possible. If anything, people constantly overestimate him, so he keeps blundering into advantage. His platform was entirely developed by spouting random garbage, and then repeating that garbage when enough people clapped. That's not cunning; it's blissfully ignorant narcissism.
Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:40 pm
At the very least, the Biden-Trump debates will be entertaining https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L00B4MeziiI
IMO a Biden-Tulsi Gabbard ticket would appeal to an overwhelming majority of Americans and definitely be enough to give Trump a run for his rubles
Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:50 pm
The problem is this: Trump won largely based on the support of three camps 1) Republicans who actually bought the shit he was selling; 2) Republicans who held their noses and voted for him anyway; and 3) weirdo independents who didn't care about policy, but just wanted the most likely candidate to burn down the house. Nobody the democrats field is pulling voters from the first two groups, and Biden definitely isn't pulling anyone from the third, same as Hillary. Bernie would have, though. Further, Biden (again, just like Hillary) isn't likely to bring out the left. They'll just stay home, because the left doesn't hold its nose; it just sits in its armchair and hopes the smell goes away. The only shot we've got is running a weirdo anti-establishment hard-left candidate, because moderate democrats (unlike the left) will still turn out to vote against Trump AND such a candidate would also bring out the left and convert the weirdo independents. The problem there is THAT candidate probably can't win the democratic primaries. So, we're fucked.
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:13 pm
Benn Roe wrote:Nah, he's a total moron. Most of his tactical advantage comes from blindsiding people with moves so ludicrously uncunning, nobody would've thought them possible. If anything, people constantly overestimate him, so he keeps blundering into advantage. His platform was entirely developed by spouting random garbage, and then repeating that garbage when enough people clapped. That's not cunning; it's blissfully ignorant narcissism.
His platform is playing into the stupidity of the masses, which is cunning and manipulative. He knows precisely what he’s doing and what the majority of his voters what to hear. You don’t do the kind things this man has done and be a moron.
Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:40 pm
Yes, you do. Emphatically, you do. In fact, you don't do most of them WITHOUT being a moron. He follows the sound of the clapping. That's all he does. That's why he keeps making these big, completely ludicrous announcements, and then backpedaling a few days later (or just failing to follow through) if, for instance, Fox & Friends condemns the announcement. There's no part of anything he's done that's been even marginally tactical. He's managed to remain unpredictable to many politicians and pundits because they keep trying to evaluate him as though he understands the game he's playing, when he so clearly doesn't.
What stands out to you as proof of this human lump's brilliance and cunning? I think you just have the cause and effect backwards: the stupidity of the masses plays into his platform; not the other way around.
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:15 pm
Umm any of his real estate deals in NY come to mind. Anyone that can get the government to offset their taxes like he has is not an idiot. They are cunning and manipulative and know how to work the system.
Also he is also able to sway a lot of the voting public still. He knows how to play the game.
I think you’re thinking I’m complimenting him. I’m not. I’m saying don’t underestimate the guy either.
Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:19 pm
He lost money running a casino.
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:16 pm
He has money. He pays lawyers and accountants to figure out loopholes and hide his assets, just like every other rich asshole. He doesn't know how to do any of that shit on his own. What was it about his real estate deals in NY that gave you the impression he was savvy? For starters, it's really easy to make money when you have a lot of it already, and somehow he repeatedly invested in projects that were obviously destined to fail. Not to mention, most of his actual monetary gains came from leveraging his name, which he could do because he was famous, and he was famous because he was rich enough to just choose to be famous. He also started with enough money to pay others to figure out how to turn that money around and make more money, and he still repeatedly botched it.
He's able to sway voters, sure, because he follows the applause, and when his actions or words garner less applause he denies he did or said them. That's not playing any sort of game; it's animalistic instinct, reacting to praise. He blundered into a demographic nobody else was willing to touch because of the toxic shit they believe, and because he was in the right place at the right time an entire political party reluctantly fell in line behind him. Sure, you could interpret that as genius, because conventional wisdom stopped everyone else from doing it, but it just isn't accurate. He has an insatiable ego and no standards of decency, which invigorated a race of subhumans nobody else had been willing to entertain, and a lot of other people jumped on board out of desperation or opportunism because there's a lot wrong with our culture and not a lot of politicians addressing it.
I don't think you're complimenting him. It sounds like you're rationalizing because it's difficult for the human brain to accept that someone so dim-witted could succeed so often. And that's reasonable, but I promise there's nothing to underestimate. The risk is in attributing strategy to chaos, and overestimating the intention behind his actions.
Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:52 pm
Trump may be smart enough to get himself (re)elected, but he's certainly not smart enough to govern effectively:https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... -as-stupid
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