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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Gone Fission » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:52 pm

Second time as farce: https://www.justsecurity.org/63635/barr ... o-in-1989/

Hadn’t been aware of this history when I had easily spotted the telltale signs of clever lawyering deviously distorting underlying reality. I don’t fully know what it is, of course, but I recognize the smoke and mirrors.
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Bassist_Diver » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:33 pm

Gone Fission wrote:Second time as farce: https://www.justsecurity.org/63635/barr ... o-in-1989/

Hadn’t been aware of this history when I had easily spotted the telltale signs of clever lawyering deviously distorting underlying reality. I don’t fully know what it is, of course, but I recognize the smoke and mirrors.


I'm going to withhold my prodigious damnation until after the Mueller report is released. I understand the need to redact the parts pertaining to any ongoing investigations, but if Barr is too profuse with the black marker then the fishy smell will skyrocket from "fish stand during a midsummers day" to "canned catfood processing factory in Chernobyl." In other words, get your clothespins ready, lads.

That being said, I hope he's smart enough to know what would happen if he redacts too much; I can't imagine Trump will be the hill he chooses to die on. Although he did condense a 400 page report into a very shallow 4-ish page summary....
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Gone Fission » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:39 pm

Besides Barr’s own history, this is certainly an area ripe with precedents: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_N._Mitchell
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Bassist_Diver » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:22 pm

Anyone fancy some light reading? Only 448 pages

https://media.npr.org/assets/news/2019/ ... report.pdf

Volume I is about Russian interference in the 2016 election. Volume II deals with Trump's obstruction, and begins on PDF page 208.

So far it seems very lightly redacted. For now I'm just chipping away at Volume II, since Vol. I offers no surprises (Spoiler: Russia definitely interfered; this was bluntly said in Mueller's memo).

EDIT 1
Okay I was wrong about the redactions, the last quarter of Vol. I is loaded with redactions. Also, the document is not searchable (at least not on Preview) so this is gonna take a while, especially with a full workday to boot.
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Sonaboy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:39 pm

Bassist_Diver wrote: if Barr is too profuse with the black marker then the fishy smell will skyrocket


Well, Congress still has the option of subpoena for Mueller if they feel like chopping through Barr's redactions to make them public. But they will probably wait while other aspects of tangent investigations conclude anyway. I would bet money they'll play that card before the final stage of election season, even if it doesn't lead to a smoking gun. It just makes Trump act crazy, which helps Dems in ways that pure fundraising never could.
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby repoman » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:17 pm

Does it explain why the FBI chose: "to not make traditional prosecutorial judgement?"

The section about obstruction of justice seems to be Trump admin telling DOJ to drop the case because there is nothing there, FBI concludes that there is nothing there, and in order to save face they have this ridiculous politically motivated "does not exonerate" portion.

Seems like the "to not make traditional prosecutorial judgement" is in there in order to facilitate this "does not exonerate" stance....has this stance ever been in any other investigation? It makes no sense in US judicial terms, its a bit of fluff at the end to take a political dig.

Why would Mueller conclude without resolving these issues if they were in fact issues? Makes no sense, he is not limited by time or money.
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby friendship » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:52 pm

Because the report establishes that members of his campaign met with Russians to interfere with the elections. There isn't evidence of Trump personally doing it, but if the people working for him did this on his behalf, and those people follow Trump's instructions, then it does not exonerate him.
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Chankgeez » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:53 pm

James Clapper thinks it's pretty damning:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke4QksnUZnc

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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby repoman » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:15 pm

friendship wrote:Because the report establishes that members of his campaign met with Russians to interfere with the elections. There isn't evidence of Trump personally doing it, but if the people working for him did this on his behalf, and those people follow Trump's instructions, then it does not exonerate him.



Do you have the page numbers talking about this?
I thought Barr specifically said that the Russians had illegally interfered with the election but that no US citizens collaborated with these groups, or had knowledge of these groups.

I think this illustrates how politicized the report is:

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What a joke.

Prosecutors don't exonerate people.
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby repoman » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:39 pm

Chankgeez wrote:James Clapper thinks it's pretty damning:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke4QksnUZnc

:idk: :snax:



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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Chankgeez » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:00 pm

"You can't copyright circuits really." - Ed Sanner …………….0.............
"The effects market was really nothing more than a bunch of beggars and thieves, all building off one another's work." - Dan Armstrong…...........................…
Sweet dealin's: here
"...a benevolent dictatorship can be O.K. for as long as the benevolence lasts…” - Hardy Green
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Dandolin » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:20 pm

eurovision'd
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Chankgeez » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:02 pm

"You can't copyright circuits really." - Ed Sanner …………….0.............
"The effects market was really nothing more than a bunch of beggars and thieves, all building off one another's work." - Dan Armstrong…...........................…
Sweet dealin's: here
"...a benevolent dictatorship can be O.K. for as long as the benevolence lasts…” - Hardy Green
#cultofGreenRinger
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Bassist_Diver » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:14 am

I don’t get why the media and democrats are going bananas over the report. I’ve read most of Volume 2 and from what I’ve seen there isn’t anything with enough substance to flip enough Republicans, be they voters or Congressmen. The GOP has demonstrated they don’t give a flying fuck about Donny’s behavior or attempts at obstruction, so any impeachment moves will hit a wall as soon as it reaches the Senate, assuming it even passes the House. There are three measures in the House to launch an investigation into impeachment, and the optics of going through this exercise only to have Trump survive (AGAIN) are horrible.

The Dems need to come to the realization that they will not be able to impeach Trump and instead focus on gaining more seats in Congress and voting Trump out in 2020.
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Re: apolitical/bitter partisanship/chronic dysfunction threa

Postby Sonaboy » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:22 am

Bassist_Diver wrote:
The Dems need to come to the realization that they will not be able to impeach Trump and instead focus on gaining more seats in Congress and voting Trump out in 2020.


I don't think they really want to. They just want to use this report to show everyone in the mushy, non-partisan middle what fools T and his crew of loyalists are, and how dangerous they are to the country. T's 30% base will never EVER abandon him. The elected GOP may start to abandon him if he keeps sabotaging the party optics going into election season. Keeping T on the defensive accomplishes that.
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