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Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:42 pm
by Disarm D'arcy
snipelfritz wrote:
Disarm D'arcy wrote:There's still something I'd like to understand. How does a foreign power actually influences an election? (seriously, in every article I have read, it's postulated, never explained or demonstrated)

Yeah, the key is the word influence in the most indirect sense. They (allegedly) illegally accessed and made public information which may or may not have have impacted voters' decisions.


I hear you. But ain't this somewhat consistent? Isn't it what the US government does when they show up everywhere around the EU around election time to push "the right choice"?

snipelfritz wrote:The implication that Russian leaders are playing favorites with the candidate who happened to win is a much larger concern.


Can you elaborate a little?

To me Trump's election was somewhat geopolitical good news. Means the non aligned friendlies will be left alone because the US-Russia relationship will warm up and this new cold war atmosphere is now gone. The atlanticists in the old Europe are gonna have to think twice before they say they want to follow crazy blonde duck. This climate is propitious to a world/UN resolution of the ISIS/middle east crisis we all have to suffer from, because diplomacy now has the floor and the recent events regarding Turkey means that it's now in everyone's interest to make the middle eastern states that are neck deep into creating and reaping the fruits of the overall destabilization of the region that this is gonna stop or else they'll get fucked real bad. :idk:

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:48 pm
by jrfox92
Disarm D'arcy wrote:There's still something I'd like to understand. How does a foreign power actually influences an election? (seriously, in every article I have read, it's postulated, never explained or demonstrated)

Basically, they aired Hillary's dirty laundry.

And she lost.

So they "rigged an election" by doing that.

The whole thing is actually pretty stupid and the stupidity is compounded by people with strong opinions that don't actually understand what the situation is and are under the impression that Russia hacked the voting booths or reset Trump's programming to be JFK for a day or something like that. :idk:
But, yeah, Snipel has a point where the real problem is that Russia had a favourite and might've done a few things that could've possibly lead to their favourite winning. It's concerning, but that doesn't mean Trump unfairly won the presidency. It just means he won and Russia is happy about it for reasons we should be concerned about because we still don't actually know what those reasons are.

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:49 pm
by Chankgeez
Disarm D'arcy wrote:
I hear you. But ain't this somewhat consistent? Isn't it what the US government does when they show up everywhere around the EU around election time to push "the right choice"?



Haven't you realized by now that U.S. Americans are hypocrites?

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:52 pm
by Disarm D'arcy
jrfox92 wrote:
Disarm D'arcy wrote:There's still something I'd like to understand. How does a foreign power actually influences an election? (seriously, in every article I have read, it's postulated, never explained or demonstrated)

Basically, they aired Hillary's dirty laundry.

And she lost.

So they "rigged an election" by doing that.

The whole thing is actually pretty stupid and the stupidity is compounded by people with strong opinions that don't actually understand what the situation is and are under the impression that Russia hacked the voting booths or reset Trump's programming to be JFK for a day or something like that. :idk:
But, yeah, Snipel has a point where the real problem is that Russia had a favourite and might've done a few things that could've possibly lead to their favourite winning. It's concerning, but that doesn't mean Trump unfairly won the presidency. It just means he won and Russia is happy about it for reasons we should be concerned about because we still don't actually know what those reasons are.


Yes. But the fact that that laundry existed and was revealed, isn't it a good thing? I mean I would have liked to know.

Chankgeez wrote:
Disarm D'arcy wrote:
I hear you. But ain't this somewhat consistent? Isn't it what the US government does when they show up everywhere around the EU around election time to push "the right choice"?



Haven't you realized by now that U.S. Americans are hypocrites?


I am conscious of that fact yes (thanks you Edward and Julian for giving us all that pretty info about you guys like to listen to everything European elected officials have to say and how you like keeping back doors into the military gear you sell to your "allies") :lol:

Still trying to understand because it's buzzing in France as well, and I just don't get it.

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:57 pm
by jrfox92
Disarm D'arcy wrote:Yes. But the fact that that laundry existed and was revealed, isn't it a good thing? I mean I would have liked to know.

That is my opinion. But, according to all my liberal-leaning acquaintances, I am a Nazi-loving fascist that wants the world to be ruled by Russian Russians. :whateva:

I think you're starting to understand why I think American politics are (is?) hilarious.

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:04 pm
by Disarm D'arcy
I think it is indeed utter bullshit. I complain about the homogeneity of the political spectrum in Europe but when I look at the US, I'm just baffled about how you guys have to choose with center-right to right wing conservatives (democrats), right to far right wing conservatives (republicans) that somehow agree on 95% of key points of American politics (taxes are bad, social progress is only valid if achieved though darwinism, death penalty why not, let's build weapons and spread them around for fun, climate change yes but who wouldn't like a couple more degrees in Nebraska or something :lol:). You guys even missed out on some somewhat very moderately left leaning center with Sanders :lol:

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:11 pm
by snipelfritz
Chankgeez wrote:
Disarm D'arcy wrote:
I hear you. But ain't this somewhat consistent? Isn't it what the US government does when they show up everywhere around the EU around election time to push "the right choice"?



Haven't you realized by now that U.S. Americans are hypocrites?

Haha, yeah.

I don't trust Putin and think he'll use Trump's naiveté on global politics as an excuse to further his building of a new Sovietesque sphere of influence and pull more Crimea-style landgrabs.

Clinton's neoliberal foreign agenda was not savory to me, but at least she had experience in that realm.

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:16 pm
by snipelfritz
Disarm D'arcy wrote:I think it is indeed utter bullshit. I complain about the homogeneity of the political spectrum in Europe but when I look at the US, I'm just baffled about how you guys have to choose with center-right to right wing conservatives (democrats), right to far right wing conservatives (republicans) that somehow agree on 95% of key points of American politics (taxes are bad, social progress is only valid if achieved though darwinism, death penalty why not, let's build weapons and spread them around for fun, climate change yes but who wouldn't like a couple more degrees in Nebraska or something :lol:). You guys even missed out on some somewhat very moderately left leaning center with Sanders :lol:

If you want to better understand American political thought:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugged_individualism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_upon_a_Hill

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:55 pm
by Disarm D'arcy
You realize that what you called a landgrab is the result of NATO being the aggressor and disregarding treaties that date back to the German reunification, right? You also realize that the climate in Ukraine is flamable as fuck, and that the NATO/EU is supporting a government in which a neo-nazi party has ministers? You also also realize Crimea was in Russia until Kroutchev snapped his fingers and decided it wasn't?

There are reasons crimeans who live in an autonomous region, are historaically pro-Russians and highly economically dépendant on them looked at Putin and thought a conservative authoritarian Russian would be better for them than a neo-nazi compatible government after years of armed militias and failed violent revolutions that are the theatrical play of the little game between Washington and Moscow for influence.

Looking at Putin as the bad guy is a rhetoric I'm not found off. When everything turns to shit, you make your best with what you have around.

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:25 pm
by Chankgeez
:idk:


Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:37 pm
by zzuFrepuS
jrfox92 wrote:It just means he won and Russia is happy about it for reasons we should be concerned about because we still don't actually know what those reasons are.




there's about $1.5 Trillion reasons Russia is happy about their Siberian Candidate winning. plus the lady that spoke up about Putin's corruption with his reelection lost.

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:15 pm
by Jwar
jrfox92 wrote:
Disarm D'arcy wrote:Yes. But the fact that that laundry existed and was revealed, isn't it a good thing? I mean I would have liked to know.

That is my opinion. But, according to all my liberal-leaning acquaintances, I am a Nazi-loving fascist that wants the world to be ruled by Russian Russians. :whateva:

I think you're starting to understand why I think American politics are (is?) hilarious.


Exactly! I was arguing with my younger brother who didn't like Clinton, but hate Trump obviously (he voted for neither lol). He was going on and on about Russia and I said "we should be thanking them". He seemed baffled and I explained that to me it doesn't matter who exposes the truth, just so long as it's exposed. I mean, how the fuck can you ignore all the shit that came out during the election. I just don't get it. Plus, it most likely did not sway the vote as much as the director of the FBI investigating her the week before voting. LOL!!! Come on!!!

This is going to be a rocky road, but no one knows how rocky yet. There's too much speculation from the media and "experts". I'm so sick of it all. Just fuck off and let's see what happens without freaking the fuck out.

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:46 pm
by rustywire
zzuFrepuS wrote:
jrfox92 wrote:It just means he won and Russia is happy about it for reasons we should be concerned about because we still don't actually know what those reasons are.




there's about $1.5 Trillion reasons Russia is happy about their Siberian Candidate winning. plus the lady that spoke up about Putin's corruption with his reelection lost.

How again, did HRC manage to win the primary? :poke:

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:33 am
by zzuFrepuS
rustywire wrote:
zzuFrepuS wrote:
jrfox92 wrote:It just means he won and Russia is happy about it for reasons we should be concerned about because we still don't actually know what those reasons are.




there's about $1.5 Trillion reasons Russia is happy about their Siberian Candidate winning. plus the lady that spoke up about Putin's corruption with his reelection lost.

How again, did HRC manage to win the primary? :poke:



i'm sorry you must be mistaking me for a HRC supporter.

Re: Drink every time Trump tweets "dishonest media"!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:15 am
by rustywire
I'm pointing at the absurdity of "it's OK when I do it!", not you. Chill.