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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby dase » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:46 pm

I'm looking at it these days as voting to keep the worst of the bastards out rather than (or as much as) voting to get anyone in.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby Blackened Soul » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:56 am

I agree with a lot of things said and it depresses me so.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby Twangasaurus » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:58 am

Iommic Pope wrote:What, and deal with the inbred descendents of the Bounty mutineers telling us what to do, as opposed to a penis with ears and DTs?
Fuck Norfolk. It'd be the same deal on a smaller scale.

To be honest, our cozying up to China leaves a lot to be desired as well. You should see all the rhetoric in the National Curriculum about our relationship with "Asia" (read China), that shit starts in the Prep year. It makes me sound like a racist xenophobe I know, but I just don't believe in catering to the whims of a government like theirs just because we want them to keep buying shit we pulled out of the ground. This country needs its own fucking identity and industries ASAfuckingP.
Instead of selling everything to multinationals and sending everyone who isn't white to be detained in countries who have no concept of human rights.

More to the point, we need to stop electing fuckwits.
Cause, you know, coal is the mother fucking future.
Apparently.


Haha no, I agree with you. There was that poll a while back saying that Australians felt that they "liked" China more than Indonesia? That's fucked up. I mean Indonesia is our closest neighbour, a strong economy in their own right and democracy that looks to become increasingly secular in the future (besides Aceh of course). Sure, they've done some dodgey shit but so have we. Yet we treat them like shit? :?: On the other hand we got our good buddies China, the hyper militarised communist "democracy" who are just generally massive scum bags. :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:. Does not compute.

Yeah right, and we focus on mining, a limited resource that we should be taxing (and not fucking it up), and letting the manafacturing industry fall apart at the seams. Makes me cry. With a bit of investment we could have been producing high end, high tech, boutique products for our neighbours with a bit of competition from Japan within a decade or two. We should also be increasingly competing for projects like the Square Kilometre Array but we don't even have a fucking minister for science! I feel like we could be putting our science and engineering graduates to better use than digging shit out of the ground. I mean, everything this government does, from cutting social services to focus on industry at the expense of the lower and middle classes is not only unpopular, it's straight up myopic.

As for Norfolk, I was more just thinking that if enough of us moved there we could just sorta take it over.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby Derelict78 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:11 am

snipelfritz wrote:
While our government is an ineffective mess right now, I think we need to be very careful in our reforms. When you abandon one system or ideology it will be replaced by a preexisting one and I think the current tea-party/libertarian waves would do far more harm than good.

I could go on but I need to get back to work now.

Please don't lump us Libertarians in with the tea party.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby Wes Mantooth » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:09 am

Dems and Republicans are both parties completely full of irredeemable fuckhead crooks. The whole 'lesser of two evils' argument is just a race to the bottom of which party can be a little less shitty than the other one. America was founded on inequality and oppression and it's going to continue unheeded for a long time.

I doubt this ends unless there's just a giant, violent revolution against the powers that be. Unfortunately the fuckheads who voted to protect their guns so they could fight government tyranny also elected people who increased military spending and gave more rights to the government to practice said tyranny.

I agree with Achtane and would just prefer to see this country nuked to shit. I'm bored of my 9 to 5.

That said the president elected will still matter because it depends on what lobbyist, corporations and religious figures are puppeteering them.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby rustywire » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:08 pm

Ultimately? Yes. The makeup of the Supreme Court matters.

The far right wing, is intrinsically fear-based in the majority of its ideology and how it sells agenda to the public.
Conservatism by definition seeks to preserve a myopic view of what is, and often times a romanticized view of what was; wearing rose colored glasses while speaking in black & white terms. It also means stripping down mechanisms and systems designed to protect the public from the greed of the powerful, and entrenching interests through privatization. On financial and social issues, the belief is that minority should rule and make the important decisions about the lives of other people. Only their beliefs are sacred, yet even those can be exploited to make money, and justified.

The far left, is intrinsically as power hungry, invasive and self-righteous. Fear mongering isn't the issue here....it's arguably a darker shade of sinister; they engage in political witchhunts in a new type of McCarthyism. The PC cops are some of the most grating people you will ever meet, browbeating and fingerwagging at everyone who doesn't talk and think and act like them. Seen the movie Demolition Man? That "new order" society is the stuff those elite liberals dream of, with themselves as the "saviors" and benefactors. They can provide all the answers through government programs, funded by the public but employing only approved, like-minded individuals.

Both seek to maintain the status quo, meaning the rich should get richer and everyone else should remain poor and grateful to have the opportunity to serve. Both are big fans of the police state...but only when they're in power. Both are easily offended, the right when their beliefs are challenged, the left...being accused of anything that's "beneath them". Sentiment trumps fact, people spend so much time suppressing emotion that it erupts into overreaction when the right trigger is pressed.

And in a 2-party dominated system...everyone gets screwed. Even the elite, which they fail to realize or simply don't care. They could be reaping huge rewards through the collective colonization of the solar system...but humans, in this present state of arrogance and entitlement, do not deserve other worlds to ruin in pursuit of creature comforts and petty pleasures of the flesh. A "me-first" mentality is not how to take that next step.

This is where I say "IDK, I'm full of shit" because I just typed a bunch of negative nancy political crap. I'd rather not talk or think about this stuff, it only makes everyone angry/angrier.

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Last edited by rustywire on Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby rustywire » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:09 pm

Chankgeez wrote:A.K.A. I'm sick and tired of our two party system.

(Non-Americans welcome to chime in on how your system of government is better/worse.)

:crab: :oldrant: :crab:
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby Ancient Astronaught » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:25 pm

Derelict78 wrote:
snipelfritz wrote:
While our government is an ineffective mess right now, I think we need to be very careful in our reforms. When you abandon one system or ideology it will be replaced by a preexisting one and I think the current tea-party/libertarian waves would do far more harm than good.

I could go on but I need to get back to work now.

Please don't lump us Libertarians in with the tea party.


Agreed.... we are not the same.....

I personally am dead tired of the two party system. Lately I've been pondering if we opened it up to a true 3 party system if it could benefit us as it would be harder to get a true majority and you'd actually have to cooperate and compromise to get anything passed. But I think there's a few things that would definitely help out everyone regardless of party.

1) BAN CORPORATE LOBBYING. period, no excuses.

2) Term limits on congress. No more lifetime seat corporate interest appointees.

3) Nationwide Polling on important issues. If we elect someone to write the laws we want and once he's in doesn't write it to our satisfaction we should have the right to tell them to rewrite the way its supposed to be.

there's a few more but I don't feel like typing a huge essay out as these get the main points across. The people need more say and the politicians need more accountability while at the same time eliminating corporate interests.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby D.o.S. » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:12 pm

Derelict78 wrote:
snipelfritz wrote:
While our government is an ineffective mess right now, I think we need to be very careful in our reforms. When you abandon one system or ideology it will be replaced by a preexisting one and I think the current tea-party/libertarian waves would do far more harm than good.

I could go on but I need to get back to work now.

Please don't lump us Libertarians in with the tea party.


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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby onyxrhino » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:28 pm

rustywire wrote:Ultimately? Yes. The makeup of the Supreme Court matters.

The far right wing, is intrinsically fear-based in the majority of its ideology and how it sells agenda to the public.
Conservatism by definition seeks to preserve a myopic view of what is, and often times a romanticized view of what was; wearing rose colored glasses while speaking in black & white terms. It also means stripping down mechanisms and systems designed to protect the public from the greed of the powerful, and entrenching interests through privatization. On financial and social issues, the belief is that minority should rule and make the important decisions about the lives of other people. Only their beliefs are sacred, yet even those can be exploited to make money, and justified.

The far left, is intrinsically as power hungry, invasive and self-righteous. Fear mongering isn't the issue here....it's arguably a darker shade of sinister; they engage in political witchhunts in a new type of McCarthyism. The PC cops are some of the most grating people you will ever meet, browbeating and fingerwagging at everyone who doesn't talk and think and act like them. Seen the movie Demolition Man? That "new order" society is the stuff those elite liberals dream of, with themselves as the "saviors" and benefactors. They can provide all the answers through government programs, funded by the public but employing only approved, like-minded individuals.

Both seek to maintain the status quo, meaning the rich should get richer and everyone else should remain poor and grateful to have the opportunity to serve. Both are big fans of the police state...but only when they're in power. Both are easily offended, the right when their beliefs are challenged, the left...being accused of anything that's "beneath them". Sentiment trumps fact, people spend so much time suppressing emotion that it erupts into overreaction when the right trigger is pressed.

And in a 2-party dominated system...everyone gets screwed. Even the elite, which they fail to realize or simply don't care. They could be reaping huge rewards through the collective colonization of the solar system...but humans, in this present state of arrogance and entitlement, do not deserve other worlds to ruin in pursuit of creature comforts and petty pleasures of the flesh. A "me-first" mentality is not how to take that next step.

This is where I say "IDK, I'm full of shit" because I just typed a bunch of negative nancy political crap. I'd rather not talk or think about this stuff, it only makes everyone angry/angrier.

Obligatory :picard:


well said. best analysis in this thread.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby morange » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:38 pm

Agreed. It's a goodun.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby snipelfritz » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:57 pm

Derelict78 wrote:
snipelfritz wrote:
While our government is an ineffective mess right now, I think we need to be very careful in our reforms. When you abandon one system or ideology it will be replaced by a preexisting one and I think the current tea-party/libertarian waves would do far more harm than good.

I could go on but I need to get back to work now.

Please don't lump us Libertarians in with the tea party.

Yah, I was just saying they are similar in that they are the only non party aligned movements with any clout right now. While one I believe is ffueled by willful ignorance and xenophobia and the other by a false perception that policy can mostly be based on abstract ideals alone, I'd rather not see either succeed. Also, I'm writing these posts quickly while on the toilet on work breaks.

The problem with supporting a "3rd party system" in America is that third parties don't just spring up out of nowhere. They break off of other parties, result was in a split ticket and basically hand the election to one party rather than creating any sort of balance. Effectively it achieves the exact opposite of what people want it to.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby dase » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:04 pm

it's probably important to note if you're considering not voting that the major parties pretty much count on that contingent of people who are so fed up that they don't vote. I don't know whether there's much of a third party / independent option in america but yeah...like I said, vote to keep the worst of them out.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby Chankgeez » Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:43 pm

dase wrote:... vote to keep the worst of them out.


That's how I've been voting.

Although, when I lived in Massachusetts, it never really mattered who I voted for in Presidential elections since it as of late it largely votes Democrat.
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Re: Does it even really make a difference who the next POTUS

Postby Derelict78 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 8:16 pm

I vote for whom ever I would like for the job, not who I think May or May not win. Although I voted for aleister Crowley in 2012 even though I was leaning tward Gary Johnson.
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