Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stuff



Moderators: Ghost Hip, metalmariachi

Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stuff

Postby JereFuzz » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:43 pm

Major advice needed from the ILF geniuses ...

So sampling is an interesting subject. I have an Akai MX8. It's great for one shots and even longer samples but it cannot receive timing info to trigger a sample (but it can be triggered by note). I have a large library of samples, including some made by me.

I prefer drum machines over sequencers because I can create whole songs, with fills variations, etc., whereas sequencers are basically DUMB drum machines. You have a fixed number of steps that you work with but you can't create variations (automatically without fiddling with knobs on the fly) whereas with drum machines you create your whole song in advance and hit PLAY. But most, if not all, hardware drum machines can't trigger a sound sample (spoken word, machine noise, etc.) when you prescribe the sound sample should be triggered. This is a pain in the ass for me. Granted, sound samples can be triggered by a note, but that is inconvenient. You can compensate for this by hitting, physically, your samples during the appropriate part of a song but you don't get the precise timing of a drum machine. How do you guys deal with this issue? Do you go old school and hit the sample at the right time? Is there equipment that will trigger your sound sample at the right time? I'm thinking of getting a Korg Electribe sampler, set its measures/beats to the exact same specifications as my drum machine (say an Alesis SR 16), receive clock start/stop info from the Alesis, and only program hits at the moments in the song where I want the sample to activate, is that the right way to do it? Can the electribe sampler create whole songs like a drum machine?

Note on sequencers. I do like sequencers and I realize that a lot of equipment uses sequencers. In fact, I just picked up a Korg SQ1. I would love to trigger the start of a sequencer at the moment in the song when the sequencer should jump in. I don't want to manually hit the sequencer myself. How is that possible? Am I asking for too much?

Regards ...
Synths:

Arturia: Minibrute
Casio: CTK-6200
Novation: Mininova
Korg: MS-20
Moog: Minitaur
Roland: JD-XI, JU-06
Yamaha: Reface DX

Drum Machines/Samplers/Sequencers:

Akai: Rhythm Wolf, Tom Cat, MPX8
Alesis: SR-16
Korg: Volca Beats
Zoom: RT-223, RT-123
JereFuzz

User avatar
experienced
experienced
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:59 am

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby rustywire » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:14 pm

MPC = sequencer+sampler (which begets drum machine). I have an OG 60mk1 and it can do what you want as a standalone. However...
The old school move is to connect a midi keyboard's midi OUT to mpc midi IN and then connect mpc midi OUT to s900/950/5000 etc midi IN.
Either way you can build beats in real time/overdub mode with tap tempo...or use the step sequencer. Their legacy, rep is legit.
[B/S/Ts] :whoa: Shortlist: Hollow Earth|Ct5|856|Happiness ... >pour a sip of something for twang & psyvam
rfurtkamp wrote:The only transparent thing I own is a set of drinking glasses.
Image
rustywire

User avatar
IAMILFFAMOUS
IAMILFFAMOUS
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:54 am
Location: Bizarro

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby JereFuzz » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:57 pm

rustywire wrote:MPC = sequencer+sampler (which begets drum machine). I have an OG 60mk1 and it can do what you want as a standalone. However...
The old school move is to connect a midi keyboard's midi OUT to mpc midi IN and then connect mpc midi OUT to s900/950/5000 etc midi IN.
Either way you can build beats in real time/overdub mode with tap tempo...or use the step sequencer. Their legacy, rep is legit.


thanks ... I looked up the MPC 60mk1 and while its interesting I don't want to go THAT old school :excellent:

I think the best workaround with the SR16 is to designate a drum as a trigger for a sound sample but drop that drum's volume to zero. When the drum machine hits that drum you can hear the sample but not the drum. The only problem with this method is that there are only 12 pads available. If I want to trigger more than one sample we are using a lot of pads for the sake of triggering those samples :(

Now the Zoom RT-223 has 3 banks of pads for over a dozen pads but ... but ... ahem ... but ... no MIDI out! :mad:

Another option would be to get another drum machine with MIDI IN and OUT and create the same song w/respect to steps/speed/quantization/but receive the clock from the SR16 and have each step empty until it is arrives at that point in the song when you need to trigger the sample. Of course, keep the sound of the drum at zero and match up the note with the note of the sampler so that it is triggered. Basically have the 2nd drum machine receive clock data during the song and send note data to the sampler. I have a Boss Rhythm Doctor DR670. I think I will use it as a sampler trigger. Its a nice drum machine but Boss didn't give you much storage on it :facepalm:
Synths:

Arturia: Minibrute
Casio: CTK-6200
Novation: Mininova
Korg: MS-20
Moog: Minitaur
Roland: JD-XI, JU-06
Yamaha: Reface DX

Drum Machines/Samplers/Sequencers:

Akai: Rhythm Wolf, Tom Cat, MPX8
Alesis: SR-16
Korg: Volca Beats
Zoom: RT-223, RT-123
JereFuzz

User avatar
experienced
experienced
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:59 am

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby rustywire » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:19 am

Fo sho. I wasn't so much suggesting you get a 60 as using it to illustrate what you seek has been available in an all-in-1 box for 30 years.
I would sooner recommend you look into a 2000XL or 4000. Less money than the 60s and more features, storage options, better display etc.
That is probably a better bet for most users, if you/they were to go the MPC route.
[B/S/Ts] :whoa: Shortlist: Hollow Earth|Ct5|856|Happiness ... >pour a sip of something for twang & psyvam
rfurtkamp wrote:The only transparent thing I own is a set of drinking glasses.
Image
rustywire

User avatar
IAMILFFAMOUS
IAMILFFAMOUS
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:54 am
Location: Bizarro

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby JereFuzz » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:26 am

rustywire wrote:Fo sho. I wasn't so much suggesting you get a 60 as using it to illustrate what you seek has been available in an all-in-1 box for 30 years.
I would sooner recommend you look into a 2000XL or 4000. Less money than the 60s and more features, storage options, better display etc.
That is probably a better bet for most users, if you/they were to go the MPC route.


Great suggestions but I don't want to spend so much for utilities. The silent trigger with the DR670 seems like a good solution for now. Also, I have some analog drum machines, I can also trigger those badboys with the DR670. The possibilities are endless. Thank God for MIDI!
Synths:

Arturia: Minibrute
Casio: CTK-6200
Novation: Mininova
Korg: MS-20
Moog: Minitaur
Roland: JD-XI, JU-06
Yamaha: Reface DX

Drum Machines/Samplers/Sequencers:

Akai: Rhythm Wolf, Tom Cat, MPX8
Alesis: SR-16
Korg: Volca Beats
Zoom: RT-223, RT-123
JereFuzz

User avatar
experienced
experienced
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:59 am

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby JereFuzz » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:49 pm

Worked like a charm ...

Alesis SR16 MIDI into
Boss DR670 (with no audio output) MIDI into
Akai MPX8

I heard my SR16 play as always when I hit the play button in pattern mode (pattern had 8 beats). Midi clock data was sent to the DR670. I created an empty pattern (w/8 beats) on the DR670 that only had two notes hit at the 3rd and 7th beat. The notes were matched on the MPX8 ... and ... BAM! It worked perfectly.

So ...

Create a drum song on the SR16 and note the total number of beats, TOTALBEATS,
Create a clone song on the DR670 with TOTALBEATS beats,
At those points in the song where you want the sample to kick in, place the right note (matching the note on the appropriate sample) in the DR670 so that it plays and triggers the sample.

The amount of data stored on the DR670 would be minimal since it is only going to trigger samples as needed.

I just bought an AKAI XR20 so that I could accomplish the above without having to use a slave drum machine. With the XR20 I will use the synth channel to hit notes at the right time to trigger the sampler. With the synth channel there should be dozens of notes at my disposal. I also want to pick up the AKAI MXP16 which has 8 more samples than the MPX8. Daisy chained together that would be 24 samples!!!!
Synths:

Arturia: Minibrute
Casio: CTK-6200
Novation: Mininova
Korg: MS-20
Moog: Minitaur
Roland: JD-XI, JU-06
Yamaha: Reface DX

Drum Machines/Samplers/Sequencers:

Akai: Rhythm Wolf, Tom Cat, MPX8
Alesis: SR-16
Korg: Volca Beats
Zoom: RT-223, RT-123
JereFuzz

User avatar
experienced
experienced
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:59 am

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby coldbrightsunlight » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:22 am

The electribe (most recent) doesn't have a song mode as far as I know, just 4x16 beats. It's easy to set up things in the 16 'voices' so you can mute, unmute etc on the fly to make it seem like a song, but if you're not interested in live playing then it might not work for you. It's fantastic for playing a mixture of synthesis/drums and samples though, and has lots of cool performance features. Not a 'hit play and play along with it' machine though...
Good deals with: AngryGoldfish, Officer Bukowski, casterbro, amnesiac305, Achtane, Snufkino, Tom Dalton, DarkAxel, JamesSGBrown, casperh7, Tristan, intothegroove, Gigahearts_FX, alalalkasar, nightterrors, Schlatte, Dandolin, jskadiang

some Swedish dude wrote:Hitler is #1 soy duck
coldbrightsunlight

User avatar
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 7266
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Location: UK

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby JereFuzz » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:07 pm

monkeydancer wrote:The electribe (most recent) doesn't have a song mode as far as I know, just 4x16 beats. It's easy to set up things in the 16 'voices' so you can mute, unmute etc on the fly to make it seem like a song, but if you're not interested in live playing then it might not work for you. It's fantastic for playing a mixture of synthesis/drums and samples though, and has lots of cool performance features. Not a 'hit play and play along with it' machine though...


I picked up the Akai XR20 for $200 which is basically an SR16 with a percussion and synth channel with more patterns and songs than the SR16; it is also geared toward hip-hop and r&b. One downside is that I cannot import external samples into the unit ...
Synths:

Arturia: Minibrute
Casio: CTK-6200
Novation: Mininova
Korg: MS-20
Moog: Minitaur
Roland: JD-XI, JU-06
Yamaha: Reface DX

Drum Machines/Samplers/Sequencers:

Akai: Rhythm Wolf, Tom Cat, MPX8
Alesis: SR-16
Korg: Volca Beats
Zoom: RT-223, RT-123
JereFuzz

User avatar
experienced
experienced
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:59 am

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby coldbrightsunlight » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:16 pm

I should learn to fucking read!

The xr 20 looks very cool, glad you got something sorted!
Good deals with: AngryGoldfish, Officer Bukowski, casterbro, amnesiac305, Achtane, Snufkino, Tom Dalton, DarkAxel, JamesSGBrown, casperh7, Tristan, intothegroove, Gigahearts_FX, alalalkasar, nightterrors, Schlatte, Dandolin, jskadiang

some Swedish dude wrote:Hitler is #1 soy duck
coldbrightsunlight

User avatar
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 7266
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Location: UK

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby JereFuzz » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:23 pm

No prob. I like the features of the Electribe but I had a specific need in mind ... my dream would be a regular drum machine (like an sr18) that allows one to upload your own samples with an sd card that does it all - this doesn't exist (MPC is too big)
Synths:

Arturia: Minibrute
Casio: CTK-6200
Novation: Mininova
Korg: MS-20
Moog: Minitaur
Roland: JD-XI, JU-06
Yamaha: Reface DX

Drum Machines/Samplers/Sequencers:

Akai: Rhythm Wolf, Tom Cat, MPX8
Alesis: SR-16
Korg: Volca Beats
Zoom: RT-223, RT-123
JereFuzz

User avatar
experienced
experienced
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:59 am

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby coldbrightsunlight » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:41 pm

:( yeah I feel you that would be really awesome if someone made it
Good deals with: AngryGoldfish, Officer Bukowski, casterbro, amnesiac305, Achtane, Snufkino, Tom Dalton, DarkAxel, JamesSGBrown, casperh7, Tristan, intothegroove, Gigahearts_FX, alalalkasar, nightterrors, Schlatte, Dandolin, jskadiang

some Swedish dude wrote:Hitler is #1 soy duck
coldbrightsunlight

User avatar
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 7266
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:20 pm
Location: UK

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:07 pm

mpc500 is pretty compact, no? not much bigger than an xr20.

500 is so slept on.
Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D.

User avatar
IAMILFFAMOUS
IAMILFFAMOUS
 
Posts: 3695
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: rochester, ny

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby JereFuzz » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:53 am

For those in the know, how does one use Hi-Hats in drum programming. I've wrapped my mind around bass/snare (which is basically all that is needed for old school industrial and hip hop) but are there rules/best practices for hi-hats?
Synths:

Arturia: Minibrute
Casio: CTK-6200
Novation: Mininova
Korg: MS-20
Moog: Minitaur
Roland: JD-XI, JU-06
Yamaha: Reface DX

Drum Machines/Samplers/Sequencers:

Akai: Rhythm Wolf, Tom Cat, MPX8
Alesis: SR-16
Korg: Volca Beats
Zoom: RT-223, RT-123
JereFuzz

User avatar
experienced
experienced
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:59 am

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby JereFuzz » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:55 am

JereFuzz wrote:For those in the know, how does one use Hi-Hats in drum programming. I've wrapped my mind around bass/snare (which is basically all that is needed for old school industrial and hip hop) but are there rules/best practices for hi-hats?


One rule I've heard is open hi-hats with bass hits. Any other?
Synths:

Arturia: Minibrute
Casio: CTK-6200
Novation: Mininova
Korg: MS-20
Moog: Minitaur
Roland: JD-XI, JU-06
Yamaha: Reface DX

Drum Machines/Samplers/Sequencers:

Akai: Rhythm Wolf, Tom Cat, MPX8
Alesis: SR-16
Korg: Volca Beats
Zoom: RT-223, RT-123
JereFuzz

User avatar
experienced
experienced
 
Posts: 626
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:59 am

Re: Drum Machines vs Sequencers ... Samples, One Hits, & Stu

Postby rustywire » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:32 am

Hihats suck. IMO best used sparingly as filler, to carry or distinguish rhythm[s] between kick & snare.
Beware of abusing them, doubletime hihats cause violent behavior :animal:
[B/S/Ts] :whoa: Shortlist: Hollow Earth|Ct5|856|Happiness ... >pour a sip of something for twang & psyvam
rfurtkamp wrote:The only transparent thing I own is a set of drinking glasses.
Image
rustywire

User avatar
IAMILFFAMOUS
IAMILFFAMOUS
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:54 am
Location: Bizarro

Next

Return to Tech & Recording



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Sponsored Ad. (Please no inflated/repetitive clicking. Thanks!)

Advertisements help support ILF


ilovefuzz.com is not responsible for user-submitted content. Users participate at their own discretion and risk.