856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)



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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby Heraclitus Akimbo » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:00 am

I kinda love the fact that even having used this pedal a fair amount, reading about other peoples' workflow still seems intense and confusing.
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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby cosmicevan » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:11 pm

hotfat wrote:(edited) Something that I found that sounds like it *may* be part of what you're describing is that the number of repeats associated with the "P1, 2 and 3" of an "Nx" may be turned up and possibly at the same pitch without having them spread out using the "Delta" (triangle) knob. When the repeats are "stacked up" rather than staggered or spread out, their volume is additive so that each iteration makes it louder. If you have all 16 iterations (turning the REP knob to max) piled on top of each other it can be really loud. I don't know if this is clear ... I hope so. The Repeats can't really be heard as such without having Delta turned up so that the individual repeats are spaced out in time. This really confused me at the start.


Makes perfect sense and I've experienced that at times as well, but mostly I experience audio cancellation when I have too much going on. When I will have N2 up with some repeats and then try to bring N3 up (I like to set up the repeats and space between and all that jazz before raising the gain so it fades in as madness), I won't hear N3 at all until I start lowering N2. Usually this results in a really obvious jump in the music as N2 and N3 are usually pretty different from each other so N2 will suddenly cut out and N3 will start playing (usually with a volume jump because I've cranked the gain on N3 and it doesn't show up until I fade N2 to almost off).

I'll experiment with some other workflows to see what is the smoothest operation, but the GAIN jumpiness when toggling between N's is a definite issue with this device that blocks using this live in the way I'm thinking. To clearly understand what I mean with the gain jumpiness, record a "loop", fade N2 all the way to max GAIN, fade N1 to off, then from N1 being off, toggle back to N2 and try to lower the GAIN, what I'm seeing happen is that after selecting N2 and twisting the GAIN knob, it wakes up and sets N2 to almost off so while I'm trying to turn the GAIN up on N2 to where it was, the result is a dip in volume and then a manual fade back. You can accomplish this toggling between any Ns that are opposite ends of the GAIN spectrum.

The work around would have to be to plan for this and try to do my N switches at about 50% gain or maybe even lower so that the jumps aren't as noticeable. Meaning that I'll have to consider GAIN at all times while spontaneously crafting live music and ensure that I don't get myself in a situation where I need to do a fast knob twist to avoid jumpiness. I've been getting around this now by clicking on a Tomkat Cloudy that the 856 feeds into. I have it set to resonator and just click it on, tweak my GAINs and Ns and what not, then kick off the cloudy so the cloudy covers up for the jumps that way.

Such a dope device....and surprisingly not as complex as I initially thought. Far from easy, but it is possible to understand what's going on with the 856 without having to dedicate yourself to studying it forever. This gives me hope for one day taking the Zoia plunge.
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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby multi_s » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:38 pm

cosmicevan wrote:Makes perfect sense and I've experienced that at times as well, but mostly I experience audio cancellation when I have too much going on. When I will have N2 up with some repeats and then try to bring N3 up (I like to set up the repeats and space between and all that jazz before raising the gain so it fades in as madness), I won't hear N3 at all until I start lowering N2. Usually this results in a really obvious jump in the music as N2 and N3 are usually pretty different from each other so N2 will suddenly cut out and N3 will start playing (usually with a volume jump because I've cranked the gain on N3 and it doesn't show up until I fade N2 to almost off).


if you can reproduce the problem please send a short video or link to support@mtlasm.zendesk.com

on 1.6 there is a new limiter because some people complained it clips hard when you play a lot of copies, so now there is a compressor to avoid this, but if you are finding some issues with it please send me a clip and we will try to reproduce the problem.

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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby cosmicevan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:33 pm

Will do. I haven't run into it as much lately but I haven't been trying to reproduce it. I think it was happening most when I was doing a lot of manipulation to an N before raising the gain. Or it could've been part of my learning curve. :idk:

I'm still using it mostly in R=B mode and then switch it over to FREE for more tempo control. I'm really loving the magic that you can open up by grabbing a clip and chopoing it to a bite and then speeding up the triggering of the "loop" - having the other N2 to weave in and out makes this an instrument to itself. I keep wanting to get a loop going to jam w but I end up not needing to go beyond the zellersasn.

Question - what controls are global to all Ns? Tempo, yes...but repeats and time between are local to N2 or N3. What about LEN? POS and OFST seem to be local.

It seems that if I shape N1 into a part of my "loop" and then bring in N2 it is a copy of the shaped N1, but if I adjust parameters those adjustments are made locally to just N2. Is this true/what should be happening?
When I bring in N3 should I expect it to be just like N1 or like N2 or is it a copy of the original unadjusted loop?

How are others using this? I haven't even touched AREC yet. FREE is cool but I like setting the duration of my "loop" i think this might be my favorite pedal of all time
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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby multi_s » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:19 am

All the parameters in the N parenthesis on the control layout are unique to each layer.

Load/save is global, the record mode is global. The timing controls with N1 selected control the beat clock, the tempo controls with N2 or N3 are jsut for that layer but are calculated based on the master beat clock.
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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby cosmicevan » Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:16 am

multi_s wrote:All the parameters in the N parenthesis on the control layout are unique to each layer.

Load/save is global, the record mode is global. The timing controls with N1 selected control the beat clock, the tempo controls with N2 or N3 are jsut for that layer but are calculated based on the master beat clock.



Thanks, this is helpful.

That said, if I record a clip in N1 and shorten it and set the POS position to a certain spot within the "loop", what should I expect N2 and N3 to be like when I raise the gain? It seems to me that LEN is obeyed so it will be the same size as what I set N1 to, but the POS on the "loop" seems to not be respected from N1 unless I give the knob a little wiggle after switching to N2. I tend to manipulate N2 and N3 with the gain all the way down so that when I fade it in it's pitched and OFST from N1. I can do more experimenting, but just curious what the expectation should be - based on your reply, it seems like N2 should be a copy of the raw N1 if i were to just raise the gain after manipulating N1, but I'm not experiencing that (I think).
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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby multi_s » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:13 pm

The POS knob should be wrt the N selected. It's behavior can change though depending on what is the position of STRIDE/ABS/UNI

From the manual:

If in the central position, ABS, the POS knob controls absolutely where samples are taken from in the recording. If the POS knob is in the fully counter-clockwise position, samples are taken from the beginning, if in the clockwise position, samples are taken from the end.
If in the upward position, STRIDE, the POS knob controls the rate at which the sample selection is advanced through positions in the sample every time a note is played. A counter-clockwise position of the POS knob advances backward and a clockwise position of the POS knob advances forward. The knob in the centre does not advance the start position of sampling.
With UNI held down, adjusting POS controls the rate at which sample selection is advanced each repeat (so REP must be turned up to hear this effect). The repeat stride is separate from the note stride and the two strides are added together to determine the starting point.
To reset the stride point, hold down UNI and press FBK once.

So if the switch is in STRIDE, then POS will react a certain way. If it is in ABS it will react another way, but neither are dependent on setting of the other N layers.
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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby multi_s » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:43 pm

just a psa that the older version 1.2 fw for v2 is also now posted on the 856 fw update page.

http://mtlasm.blogspot.com/p/firmware-u ... 6-for.html

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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby cosmicevan » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:02 pm

Curious if there is a way to set the device to default settings as when first powered up? I would like a way to quickly return to default settings after working w a loop. If I set a preset after powering on, will that work or the preset will align the knob settings when clicked?

Still curious about recommended default settings for knobs and if I need to set them for all the Ns individually or if there is a quick way to reset every N.
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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby multi_s » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:17 pm

cosmicevan wrote:Curious if there is a way to set the device to default settings as when first powered up? I would like a way to quickly return to default settings after working w a loop. If I set a preset after powering on, will that work or the preset will align the knob settings when clicked?

Still curious about recommended default settings for knobs and if I need to set them for all the Ns individually or if there is a quick way to reset every N.


To reset all the parameters hold the STRIDE/ABS/UNI switch in the down position while clicking the FADE/GAIN/FBK switch in the downward direction twice. This should reset them to powerup settings.


re store/recall:

If you like what you've created and want to apply it to other loops, you can save the parameters by setting the PRE1/PRE2/PRE3 switch and clicking the STR-RCL switch upwards. To recall the setting later select the preset with the PRE1/PRE2/PRE3 switch and click the STR-RCL downwards. On power up it loads none of the presets by default, you would have to pick the preset you want (1 2 or 3) then recall it by pressing down on STR/-/RCL switch.

Not sure what you mean by "Still curious about recommended default settings for knobs" though

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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby cosmicevan » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:51 pm

multi_s wrote:Not sure what you mean by "Still curious about recommended default settings for knobs" though

s


I meant what the knob settings are for power up. I think they are something like this...
Image

In any event, I stored a preset with the settings like this and that seems to work between uses to "reset" it for how I use it. I think most of my "issues" were actually that I had set the pedal to be a certain way and it was actually set differently. I'm hoping to dig in with MIDI at some point, maybe something via ipad :idk:

In general, I set the knobs like this before I start. I will record a loop and then build some new rhythm from the loop to play over. I've been experimenting with the other presets but inevitably I will always accidentally overwrite them by clicking store instead of recall Image. I do have visions of having some preset pitched rhythms chunked in N2 and N3 just waiting to be faded in on a newly recorded N1. We'll get there, I'm patient. This is a learning and growing relationship that typically results in some most excellent dance rhythms Image

It also seems like a wonderful way for me to explore being modular without actually being modular Image



NSFW: show
any hints on when purpll is coming

Image
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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby cosmicevan » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:29 pm

The stride function is the single greatest thing of all time. That is all.

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Re: 856 for ZELLERSASN (Firmware 1.6 released, last page)

Postby solfege » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:38 pm

Hi Scott,

Still hoping for those Mac firmware update instructions. Thanks.
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