"In the shop tonight" with Taylor



Moderator: Taylor Livingston

Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby goroth » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:37 am

I so didn't post that Taylor. :poke:
oldangelmidnight wrote:If you've got joysticks on board, you don't need to justify your power supply to us.

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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby Tristan » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:29 am

I don't even know what Smash Mouth is.

Just bummed out and unpleasantly surprised about these price increases (a few years back they were about $195) and I thought it was worth noting that apparently the business model you went with in the long run can't sustain leveled prices.
I just think that with these new developments we're bound to see even less Iron Ether pedals in Europe and that makes me sad, at the current exchange rate your $245 pedal including a shipping fee of $35 amounts to about €350 over here.

The pedals sound great but for me the current price is a bridge too far for what they are.
My personal opinion of course, I guess it's in my nature to be critical and question things and on ILF there's a certain freedom to do so, it just slipped my keypad so to speak, nevertheless not to be any more of a bother I won't address these things any further.
Free country and all, I wish all the best for Iron Ether and I hope it works out for you.
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby goroth » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:43 am

Tristan wrote:I don't even know what Smash Mouth is.

Whatever you do don't youtube them. It's better for your appreciation of music and humanity in general if you don't.
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby Tristan » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:47 am

I'm trying pretty hard not to, hoping I'll forget about it. ;) :lol:
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby Chankgeez » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:42 pm

Taylor Livingston wrote:
Tristan wrote:Selling direct was to keep prices reasonable right, you can hardly call this affordable anymore, lotsa sad panda's. :(
I mean, $245 for a fuzz pedal with no extra / special options what so ever.
But hey, it sells, so I guess I must be wrong. :idk:


Well, ultimately if somebody thinks the pedals cost more than they want to pay for them, that's not something I can argue. There are lots of things I'd like to have, but which cost more than I want to pay, so I don't buy those things. Other people feel differently about either the value of that amount of money, or the value of the good or service, and that doesn't bother me. It's never occurred to me to go into shops where people sell their handmade goods, and tell them that they aren't affordable to me. These people are not doing wrong to me for charging what they do.

The pedals I make are really time-consuming and costly to make, and an Iron Ether pedal from 2015 is not the same as one from a few years ago. The costs of everything used in making them have gone up in the last 5 years, and I've put a ton of work and money into redesigning each pedal inside and out, and all the processes involved in making them, to improve them in a variety of ways over the years, and to eliminate sources of pollution from the manufacturing and finishing processes. So it isn't a higher price for the same product, but a higher price for what I would argue is a much better product that takes considerably more time and more money to build than it used to.

It's genuinely something I've spent a lot of time worrying about, regarding making things that are generally affordable. First, it's worth noting that any pedal over $100 is not affordable to most people on this planet, so it was already an impossible hope to begin with. Once I got a real sense of the finances, I found that if the prices didn't go up, IE was going to have to go out of business - that's the reality of trying to make high-quality, individually hand-painted things. I probably should not even address this, but, I live on Martin Luther King Jr Blvd. You don't need to know anything about New Orleans to know that nobody living on MLK is making excess bucks. Just ask Chris Rock.

So, you've made your opinion on the value of the pedals clear, and I actually don't want to try to change your mind because you're not wrong - value will always be subjective. Now that everyone has heard your position, I'm hoping I can continue to post here to let people know about the pedals without each time being accused of gouging or however you may characterize it. You could even start a whole new thread to debate it with other folks if you felt like you needed to convince them these pedals are over-priced. I'll stay out of the thread if you'd like, as I've always stayed out of opinion threads regarding IE as I don't want people to feel like they can't criticize without the maker arguing. But I might edit your posts to make it look like you're trying to convince everybody that Smash Mouth is the best band ever or something. :lol:


Good answer. :thumb:
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby Taylor Livingston » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:41 pm

Tristan wrote:Just bummed out and unpleasantly surprised about these price increases (a few years back they were about $195) and I thought it was worth noting that apparently the business model you went with in the long run can't sustain leveled prices.


These things don't have the connection you're thinking they do. Whatever a manufacturer decides they need to sell an item for in order to be profitable, the consumer will pay 30% extra on top of that when they buy through a retailer. So if the manufacturer's costs go way up, you're going to see a price increase either way, but having a retailer in between the manufacturer and consumer means a price increase plus 30% rather than just a price increase. That decision of mine is still having the intended effect.

...at the current exchange rate your $245 pedal including a shipping fee of $35 amounts to about €350 over here.


Yes, that's unfortunate, but the majority of that has to do with the Euro losing value against the dollar, a factor over which I sadly have no control. When the Oxide came out, the Euro was worth 30% more than it is today against the dollar.

I wish all the best for Iron Ether and I hope it works out for you.


Thanks!
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby jwar » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:59 pm

Tristan there's always second hand dude. I mean I see IE stuff pop up all the time. Not as much as it used to but I've seen a Oxide at least 3 times recently used for 150.


I am an early adopter to Iron Ether. I think I bought an Oxide right when they came out. Then every other pedal you've made. LOL.

I've owned the Xero Deluxe (seriously) 8 times. I own one right now and am not getting rid of it. I'm a pedal whore. Most of those were brand new purchases too! LOL

Owned the Nimbus probably 5 times, the Franta at least 4-5

I don't want to talk about this anymore...hahahaha

Needless to say I love you stuff Taylor.
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby sylnau » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:00 pm

I understand your point Taylor.
But just to add to Tristan's comment.
It's the same here in Canada... with the money convertion rate I cannot get your pedals anymore.
I'm glad I've found a used Xero Deluxe for 160 CND.
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby jwar » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:05 pm

sylnau wrote:I understand your point Taylor.
But just to add to Tristan's comment.
It's the same here in Canada... with the money conversion rate I cannot get your pedals anymore.
I'm glad I've found a used Xero Deluxe for 160 CND.


But to be fair to Taylor, it would be that way regardless of the manufacturer/builder. I mean the dollar in your country has gone down, so everything would be more expensive.
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby Tristan » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:52 pm

It's that but there's another layer to it considering the fact that price increases are also felt more drastically.

I mean, I don't blame Taylor and I hope it didn't come across that way but this whole thing of somewhere down the chain someone asking more money (assumably being greedy) leading to price increases especially felt by small businesses and in end effect by small consumers just blows and ultimately makes me want less and less because at some point I just don't feel it's reasonable anymore.

Bigger businesses have a benefit I think, because they buy in larger quantities they have a stronger position to negotiate prices with their suppliers so they arguably don't feel price increases as much, plus they can do standardised runs so they don't have to charge extra because of time spend on custom paint jobs which some people may or may not care for (in this case I don't).
Also, if there are foreign retailers in play they could have older stock so it would have possibly been easier to score something at the old price / old exchange rate.
Just some reasons why I do think the business model makes a difference but ultimately I guess Taylor and me just have a difference in opinion / different point of view, no problem, things sometimes just are the way they are. ;)

Sorta early adopter here too by the way, with the Xerograph Deluxe and FrantaBit.
The Subterranea, Nimbus and possibly also the Oxide were tempting me, I guess not anymore.
You're right though jwar, there's always second hand.
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby Tristan » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:26 pm

Uhh, I think I listened to Smash Mouth...
Yeah...
Uhh...
That was pretty bad...
Thanks for the Mind Fuck Taylor...
:whoa: :eek: :lol:
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby allicio » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:18 pm

To be fair to taylor though prices are increasing throughout the whole industry but it's the small builders that feel it more as they can't absorb costs. I'm in the UK and have dealt with quite a few small builders across your guys side of the pond and I would say taylor prices are on par with other builders building this level of complexity pedals.
Now he just needs to build a polytope in copper and jobs a good Un! !!! :!!!: :!!!: :!!!:
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby allicio » Wed Jul 15, 2015 4:30 pm

Hey taylor
I notices the polytopes are not listed in the shop anymore, does that mean a new batch could be coming soon?
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby Taylor Livingston » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:03 pm

They're in the pipeline - it might be 2 weeks or so before they're done and in the shop.
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Re: "In the shop tonight" with Taylor

Postby allicio » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:06 pm

Cool! Copper by any chance? :D
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