transistor differences? 2N3704 v 2N5089 v 2N5172 v 2N222A



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transistor differences? 2N3704 v 2N5089 v 2N5172 v 2N222A

Postby hangwire » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:55 pm

I have a pedal with socketed transistors and I have these that could be swapped in:

2N3704
2N5089 (has -830- if that makes any difference)
2N5172
2N222A

just wondering those with more experience on tech matters what pedal/sounds are these transistors associated with for my reference.


Thanks in advance for info!
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Re: transistor differences? 2N3704 v 2N5089 v 2N5172 v 2N222

Postby BetterOffShred » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:08 pm

Eh, they are all silicon devices which are typically pretty uniform from unit to unit. That is to say most 3904's for example will be within a pretty close range of each other. This of course leads to little or no "Mojo" like you get with germanium components.

Also most circuits are designed in such a way that you don't need a say 820hFe 5089 or it won't work or sound bad.. they are designed so you buy 10000 of them and it'll work despite minor variations.

I'm not a master pedal builder, but I've built some of what I consider to be the finest circuits ever designed( not by me, by dudes like Armstrong and Joe Gagan to name just two) and I don't think you stand to gain much by just swapping stuff out

Depending on the circuit and how it's layed out, you could make it sound better by upping the gain on an important stage in the circuit or make it not work at all. It's just really all about what each stage is doing in the circuit. Match your Pinouts and try stuff. You might find something cool.
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Re: transistor differences? 2N3704 v 2N5089 v 2N5172 v 2N222

Postby crochambeau » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:10 pm

hangwire wrote:I have a pedal with socketed transistors and I have these that could be swapped in:

2N3704
2N5089 (has -830- if that makes any difference)
2N5172
2N222A

just wondering those with more experience on tech matters what pedal/sounds are these transistors associated with for my reference.


Thanks in advance for info!


2N3704 is a ECB, do you mean 2N3904 (EBC)? If not, make sure your pin outs reflect what the design needs, unless you feel like freaking out.

I like sockets, transistors are cheap (assuming we're talking about ones in production), knock yourself out.

I'll plug just about anything into a 9 volt rail simple circuit, wrong pin outs, backwards, you name it. It can be surprising what works and what doesn't and rarely do parts die from low power shenanigans. Have fun!
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Re: transistor differences? 2N3704 v 2N5089 v 2N5172 v 2N222

Postby hangwire » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:59 pm

Its a 1 knob fuzz and the knob controls the "texture" I am guessing. Very bright and louder than unity. Like a cranky SuperFuzz. Hoping to gain down and get some sputter over the sizzle it has...
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Re: transistor differences? 2N3704 v 2N5089 v 2N5172 v 2N222

Postby crochambeau » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:06 pm

You'd probably stand a better chance of reaching your goal through swapping out resistor values, though rolling transistors through a socket is largely harmless.
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Re: transistor differences? 2N3704 v 2N5089 v 2N5172 v 2N222

Postby BetterOffShred » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:08 pm

Yeah I like to swap out biasing resistors with a pot on some things. On some circuits it's just awesome, on others there is a small range where the transistor will even make sound .. but try it out and see!
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Re: transistor differences? 2N3704 v 2N5089 v 2N5172 v 2N222

Postby eatyourguitar » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:17 pm

the difference is bandwidth and gain. I would seriously doubt that anyone can improve an audio circuit designed for silicon NPN transistors by substituting 2N2222 where the designer has spec 2N3904 or 2N5088. the 2N2222 will pickup more high frequency radio interference. this is an undesirable effect most of the time but it may be necessary as a feature in some circuits. the 2N3904 is similar to the 2N3704 but the 2N3704 can safely operate with %400 more continuous collector current. this a useless feature for audio circuits that are not intended to drive loads such as speakers or headphones. I would not purchase 2N3704 over 2N3904 if it would increase cost with no real benefit for my use case. the 2N5089 and 2N5088 are pretty much identical so we can skip the minor differences. I would purchase 2N5088 but I would use 2N5089 if it was given to me for free. the only reason the 2N5172 NPN silicon transistor exists is to be used always in conjunction with it's PNP counterpart the 2N6076. I would probably just buy some 2N6076 and use them together where I have a requirement for a complementary NPN + PNP pair. synth circuits that stack BC549 and BC559 are good examples of a circuit that would be appropriate.

the only thing you need to know is that the 2N3904 is the plain old regular use it for everything silicon transistor. the 2N5088 is the high gain silicon transistor that must be used in a modern EH big muff pi circuit.
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Re: transistor differences? 2N3704 v 2N5089 v 2N5172 v 2N222

Postby crochambeau » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:11 pm

eatyourguitar wrote:the 2N5088 is the high gain silicon transistor that must be used in a modern EH big muff pi circuit.


I've used the 2N5088 elsewhere, but I like to live dangerously. :cool:
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Re: transistor differences? 2N3704 v 2N5089 v 2N5172 v 2N222

Postby eatyourguitar » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:55 pm

crochambeau wrote:
eatyourguitar wrote:the 2N5088 is the high gain silicon transistor that must be used in a modern EH big muff pi circuit.


I've used the 2N5088 elsewhere, but I like to live dangerously. :cool:


it works great in anything where your requirements are high gain and heavy metal. it also works great in a one transistor fuzz like an electra or a one transistor boost like the LPB-1. I also hate the sound of the LPB-1 so while I think it sounds best there it still sounds like an LPB-1 so totally a no go for me. the problem for me is that it tends to make every fuzz so high gain that I can not build one pedal that will do everything if the gain is too high already. as always, experiment and use your ears but if you already know it will suck then maybe I can save people the wasted time. I don't think socketing transistors is a magic wand here because if the 2N5088 sounds best, that is because the resistor values are setup to complement the 5088 already. this could possibly reduce the gain while increasing stability. some NPN amplifiers are designed such that there will be pretty much no difference at all in swapping a medium gain silicon for a high gain silicon. socketing lets you hit the sweet spot by luck or by trial and error. it does not explain why, it does not change resistor values accordingly so you can compare apples to apples. even if you did, you would find that they sound the same. in fact the only time that they absolutely sound different and do different things is when two single transistor circuits are setup for maximum clean gain. the 2N5088 obviously wins in this comparison due to the higher Hfe. if you want to run out of headroom much more you could just swap 5088 into anything as is.
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