INFANEM the driving notion clone

[digi2t]

I was stoked to see it not having to be put in one of those deep 1590bb enclosures that I never have enough of! Having build at least a dozen deadendfx projects I can say that they really strive to explain everything well in the build doc. I would also add that Dino has been a gentleman when it comes to email correspondence and helping me debug a situation or two that was of course my error.

Ibarakishi commissioned me to build one forever ago and I will gladly be matching Dino's generous offer so that our ILF brother will never go without his beloved pedal again!

Well, thank you for the kind words. Greatly appreciated. While I realize that our build docs may not be on par with say, Aion (killer build docs), we do our best with the time we have available. Of course, builder input is always important, and we do our best to adjust to valid concerns and constructive criticism.

New boards are now a few days out. Just got the email from the fab house. If Iba is fine with a Plain Jane aluminium enclosure (I find doing enclosure artwork tedious and pointless), then I'm good with sending him the first clone. If he would prefer something more... elaborate, then perhaps someone could jump in with the enclosure. I could send the populated board, with footswitch, LED, and long off board wires to them, they could house it, and then forward it to Iba.

The ball is in Ibarakishi's court.

[ibarakishi]

I was stoked to see it not having to be put in one of those deep 1590bb enclosures that I never have enough of! Having build at least a dozen deadendfx projects I can say that they really strive to explain everything well in the build doc. I would also add that Dino has been a gentleman when it comes to email correspondence and helping me debug a situation or two that was of course my error.

Ibarakishi commissioned me to build one forever ago and I will gladly be matching Dino's generous offer so that our ILF brother will never go without his beloved pedal again!

Well, thank you for the kind words. Greatly appreciated. While I realize that our build docs may not be on par with say, Aion (killer build docs), we do our best with the time we have available. Of course, builder input is always important, and we do our best to adjust to valid concerns and constructive criticism.

New boards are now a few days out. Just got the email from the fab house. If Iba is fine with a Plain Jane aluminium enclosure (I find doing enclosure artwork tedious and pointless), then I'm good with sending him the first clone. If he would prefer something more... elaborate, then perhaps someone could jump in with the enclosure. I could send the populated board, with footswitch, LED, and long off board wires to them, they could house it, and then forward it to Iba.

The ball is in Ibarakishi's court.

All my pedals other than digital ones (ditto and zoom) are either all solid black, aluminium, or rusted metal. So it would actually excited me more that it is just pure aluminium. I will obviously be happy to compensate you whatever you need for it though (even if its just the cost of parts and shipping at the absolute minimum, i know first hand what its like to run an independent business with your own two hands and sweat) , as i don't think anyone needs to be out of money for this thing. Once things get closer to being finished on your end then you can let me know and i can give you my personal information when it is needed. I will still be commissioning a pedal from ianmarks as well as planned, because i want a few of these in my life and because i use it so often for everything (one for studio recording use, one to put permanently on a live board, etc.). Again, im just really thankful that people are seeing this through and in the process aren't leaving me to drown. It means a lot.

sending love from this side of the world in thailand, ILF clang gang for life

[digi2t]

No worries. I'll report back as soon as I have it assembled and working to some semblance of my satisfaction. Actually, once it's together, I'll be able to do a proper side-by-side A/B video. If it meets with your approval, I'll hit you up for the shipping deets and send it.

[ibarakishi]

sounds great, can't wait to see them side by side. from your initial video, it sounds pretty close to what i remember it would normally sound like through non-lace pickups. completely changes character once you use it with lace alumitones

[taco satori]

That sounds pretty bloody good Dino! The overall tone is really similar, at least when filtered via Youtube's algorithms. The gain is, as you pointed out, quite a bit lower, but tbh I quite like that. The reason I didn't buy one way back when is that I always wanted it to go lower gain than it did. The mods sound pretty rad as well!

I agree completely. This is the closest sounding of all the clones / workalikes presented in this thread. I would add that one DN I bought during Infanem’s $99 sale sounded a bit hotter as far as the ‘In’ setting than one I bought secondhand when I A/B’d them. Not sure if components slightly differed between the two models. The hotter one was also plagued with the usual Infanem construction issues, so I hardly used it except to baby and leave on.

I use this pedal at lower gain settings and favoring the Low side of the circuit, the knob for which is below noon, so even if the potential input gain is less than stock, this still is gonna be incredibly useful! The mods are thoughtful, too.

As a member of the pedal-building laity, I will totally throw down for one if someone decides to make a couple.

[eatyourguitar]

- The most important element is "niche". You need to occupy a space where as few toes are being stepped on as possible.

the irony of this is that you showed up when this project started to say that you already had the schematic but you would not share and you would not sell PCB's. I took you on your word and I understand your reasons for running your business any way you want. I believe your exact words were something like "that pedal sucks and I would not waste my time releasing a PCB for sale". so taking you on your word and respecting your decision to not sell this PCB, I also invested my time into tracing it. I had some difficulty getting it right which is totally not your fault but when I got stuck half way through I figured I would ask you for help again through your website. I made the case that I am completely out of business and it is what it is but I care a lot about the guy who donated his pedal to this project who is over a year without his pedal. I tried to explain to you that if I am already agreeing to non-compete with you, and I am bankrupt in the pedal business, what is the harm in helping me help the guy who has been waiting over a year for his pedal? you just ghost my email no reply? that is pretty messed up that you swoop in to look like the hero when you never cared about OP the whole time. all you cared about was proprietary, competition, and profit. that's fine and I don't have a problem with anyone running a business. but I think it is time to air out what really happened and how competitive you are because people seem to think that you are some kind of philanthropist. the truth is you will lie and step on anyones toes if it increases your profit. you don't even have time to reply to my email to tell me that you are planning on copying me after my project started getting attention. I was the first one to make a PCB. you were the second. after your PCB is released, everyone will have the schematic and there are two people that can sell it. I'm glad I'm out of business so I don't need to go this low just to stay in business.

[eatyourguitar]

oh yeah and this PCB to mount the jacks arrived.

[oldangelmidnight]

EYG, there's no shame in bowing out. We saw that you did your best and it didn't work out.

[digi2t]

Update...

Board is populated, except for the two C5K pots, which I am hoping will arrive this week. In the meantime, I've faked them with two 5k1 resistors and jumpers, just so I can verify the voltages. Everything voltage-wise is right in the wheelhouse. Sound-wise, the "turns your neck into aluminium" that goroth so aptly described is definitely there. Kind of like the uber-brightness of new strings on your guitar... all the time. I have two transistors in sockets at the moment, and they seem to perform fine, but I have some SMD units on their way along with the pots that I want to try. Just to try and reduce the potential "transistor rolling" that this circuit requires otherwise. "Thick" switch caps have been defined, and work really well with lower Low pot settings. Makes the High side nice and growly at two different frequency ranges.



Guess I'll go drill the enclosure now.

[eatyourguitar]

EYG, there's no shame in bowing out. We saw that you did your best and it didn't work out.

I did not give up. I slowed it down waiting for more information to come in regarding cap values. apparently everyone is waiting for someone else to confirm the design (myself included). I was also waiting for this jack PCB to arrive which it did. my only problem is that I want this clone to be correct so I need to know if the 1uF ceramic caps being changed to 100nF is correct. I am also considering using 220nF in my build to average it out. deadendfx claims to be holding on to all the answers since day 1. so far I have open sourced my schematic and other members in the community have all worked on this project. deadendfx takes advantage of all the open source information posted by people helping with this project. in return we get pay walled. my PCB's are still available by PM but I guess no one wants them if he spams the thread saying his version is better.

so should I wait for the deadendfx pcb to be released so i can then read the correct cap values? should I give up? should I rush to build the pedal I owe OP? also, what about the stack of PCB's I have here that would not exist if deadendfx told the truth. I was told that I would be the only one offering the INFANEM driving notion and so I took the job planning on this business venture being profitable. it is now a total loss because someone lied to me, copied me, and spammed their business in my thread. thanks. not a big deal because this is the last project I am involved in. but damn, what a sour greedy conclusion.

the idea of not sharing a schematic because it is proprietary goes out the window as soon as you start selling a PCB. there is no trademark at this point and so as he said in his own words, there is no honor among thieves. except in my case, I have actually conformed to the ILF official forum rules "thou shalt not clone in production pedals from other guitar pedal businesses or ILF members". I also have posted as open source every single project I have ever done with the exception of contract work I do not own rights to.

[hmshmchl]

I just found this thread and read all 26 pages. What a journey. I'm keen to pick up the DeadEnd PCB when it's ready - hopefully they included their mods too?

[frodog]

digi2t should address it. Ignoring something in a public forum won't make it go away and the brand will take a hit. The best thing to do in these cases is a timely and sincere response.

I know this is a slow-moving and seemingly small forum but honestly.

[digi2t]

digi2t should address it. Ignoring something in a public forum won't make it go away and the brand will take a hit. The best thing to do in these cases is a timely and sincere response.

I know this is a slow-moving and seemingly small forum but honestly.

What exactly should I be addressing?

[frodog]

eatyourguitar's above posts?

[digi2t]

eatyourguitar's above posts?

OK. From the top then;

the irony of this is that you showed up when this project started to say that you already had the schematic but you would not share and you would not sell PCB's.

False. I did not "show up when this project started". Fact, I never posted anything in this thread until 26 March 2021 (this year). Yes, I have followed the thread, as a passing interest, but had no intentions of posting anything. It was iba's post on 26 March 2021 (desert scene) that enticed me to get involved. Also false, I never claimed that we would not eventually sell PCB's. Keep this point in mind, I'll clarify further on.

I took you on your word and I understand your reasons for running your business any way you want. I believe your exact words were something like "that pedal sucks and I would not waste my time releasing a PCB for sale". so taking you on your word and respecting your decision to not sell this PCB, I also invested my time into tracing it.

False. On 10 March 2020 (last year, and three months after the thread started), I received an unsolicited PM from Mr. Smith, which read;

reverse engineering
Sent: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:46 am
From: eatyourguitar
To: digi2t

I have pictures of the PCB from the INFANEM driving notion. I was planning on doing some reverse engineering so that I can make a custom PCB. the problem is that I have been extremely busy with school and work. I am under the impression that you enjoy spending your time reverse engineering and building clones of out of production pedals. I can't throw you any money since I am not making money doing this. but if you want free access and you would like to share what you find with the community, then I will send you loads of detailed photos at every stage of disassembly. I can also send you 5 free PCB's of the thing after I design a PCB for it. you can trade and sell them to get back some of your time investment. if you never send me a schematic then I will never send you a PCB obviously because one depends on the other.

let me know if you want the pictures and have time to trace it

Robert Smith
Eatyourguitar.com

To which I replied;

Hi Robert,

We've already traced out the 3 and 5 knob versions some time ago. Neither version ever convinced us to be that great of a fuzz, or to be distinct enough to merit adding PCB's to our overhead, so we mothballed the works indefinitely in favor of more interesting projects. Maybe one day we'll revisit it, or maybe not. Who knows. Plenty of more interesting projects to trace out there right now, as my overflowing work bench can attest. If we do decide to make PCB's, then the schematic, as well as any other pertinent information will be released along with the build doc. As we've always done with all our projects.

Regardless, thanks a bunch for the offer.

Cheers,
Dino

Note that I never said that we would never make a PCB. With that, I opted out and went on with my life. Moving right along...

I had some difficulty getting it right which is totally not your fault but when I got stuck half way through I figured I would ask you for help again through your website. I made the case that I am completely out of business and it is what it is but I care a lot about the guy who donated his pedal to this project who is over a year without his pedal.

Well, yes... that does suck. But then again, when you go and make a claim such as this;

post pics of the inside please. I like to reverse engineer. I have a way to get it right %100 of the time. I build a full net list by checking continuity from each pad to every other pad. the search space is as big as p*(p-1)/2. this is close to (p^2)/2 which grows like p^2. this is why I want to see how big it is. something with 4 pots, 20 resistors, 4 caps, 2 IC, power = 70 pads. this means I have to check continuity 2415 times. in reality though, it would be 4830 because it is very difficult to skip duplicates. 2415 is only theoretical.

a fuzz face though, that would be 182 tests or 96 in god mode. the difficulty grows fast!

Then why would I bother getting involved. I mean, 100% success rate. Sorry, I can't compete with that. I screw up all the time. Constantly. It's like a disease. I'm afflicted. Screwupitis. No vaccine available. Anyway...

I tried to explain to you that if I am already agreeing to non-compete with you, and I am bankrupt in the pedal business, what is the harm in helping me help the guy who has been waiting over a year for his pedal? you just ghost my email no reply? that is pretty messed up that you swoop in to look like the hero when you never cared about OP the whole time. all you cared about was proprietary, competition, and profit.

First and foremost, we don't compete with anyone. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, for Phil and myself, this is a hobby. We both have very good jobs, and by no means do we monetarily depend on DEFX in any way shape or form. The day we get bored with it, or it begins to feel like a chore, we will shut it down in a heartbeat, and not bat an eyelash. As for not caring about the OP (ibarakishi), trust me, if we really didn't give a shit, then we wouldn't have gotten involved.

Yes, I did ghost his email to the deadendfx site (26 March 2021), which read...

From: Robert Smith (onlywearblack@gmail.com)

The following message was sent using your Big Cartel contact form at http://www.deadendfx.com/contact

I think we talked before when you said you traced the infanem driving notion on your own before I attempted it. I am now in a bad spot. there were some errors on my schematic that I traced as a project with jonwayne on ILF. The pedal was deconstructed into pieces so that has been destroyed. There are still details of my schematic that I believe are incorrect or unconfirmed. I feel really bad that I owe someone a guitar pedal and now that I am completely out of business, I want to end on a good note not burning the guy who donated his INFANEM pedal for tracing.

I am desperate so I thought I would ask you once again if you would share the schematic that you worked hard in tracing. I know you said it is proprietary but I am not competing with you now as a business and you are also not selling the driving notion so maybe you could let me see the schematic you have for it? pretty please?

First of all, the schematic is not proprietary, definitely not in the sense conveyed here. The circuit, as with the schematic, is the intellectual property of INFANEM. Second, and this one really gets to me, why in heavens's sake would someone destroy a perfectly good pedal to trace it? I'm sorry if this sounds flippant, but it's not even that tough of a trace. Yes, the traces are confusing because of the routing, and some SMD parts can be a pain to define, but then again, I've traced some of the later Spaceman pedals that are not only SMD, but have all the traces sandwiched between the two outer pours. Finally, the work we put into a project is our own, regardless of the circumstances. Yes, that is proprietary. Granted, I didn't breadboard the Notion until recently, but quite frankly, why would we share anything that hasn't been validated, or that we're not 100% confident in?

Also, just to digress for a moment, remember the original PM that he sent to me on 10 March 2020? Well, it didn't take too long before he was whining about it in this thread. Just a few hours after my reply to his PM, I saw this;

I just found out people have already traced it before me but they do not share don't worry. I will post everything for all to see. I will be selling PCB's. no one is selling PCB's right now. if they did they would need to release the schematic as well. if you hear anything on that please forward the link to me so that I can stop before I start.

Quite frankly, I just didn't know what to make of this. Was it a complaint? Was it an attempt at enticement? Some sort of guilt trip message? I don't know. I knew precisely who it was aimed at, but I simply decided to take a pass.

that's fine and I don't have a problem with anyone running a business. but I think it is time to air out what really happened and how competitive you are because people seem to think that you are some kind of philanthropist. the truth is you will lie and step on anyones toes if it increases your profit. you don't even have time to reply to my email to tell me that you are planning on copying me after my project started getting attention. I was the first one to make a PCB. you were the second. after your PCB is released, everyone will have the schematic and there are two people that can sell it. I'm glad I'm out of business so I don't need to go this low just to stay in business.

So, let's "air out what really happened"... he bent the truth, made claims that he couldn't back up, took facts out of context to suit his position, not to mention destroying a perfectly good pedal that's not even his, and yet, somehow, we're to blame.

Just to be clear, Phil and I have traced a lot of circuits together over the past three years. Over the 10 years previous to our partnership, I've traced circuits and collected schematics to the point where I have half of a 1T backup drive's worth. Last I checked there was no law, written or otherwise, that states that I have any obligation to share anything. Yet, over the years, I think I've contributed more than my fair share to the DIY community. In the past 3 years, Phil and I have done our best to bring the most elusive and eclectic circuits back to life, not in as a form of competition with anyone, but simply in the spirit of contributing to the DIY movement.

And yet, for one man, this doesn't seem to be enough.

With that, I'll close with this; All I know is that there's someone halfway around the globe that's been out a pedal for over a year now. We plan on trying our level best to rectify that, to the best degree possible. What's really pissing me off right now isn't even the bullshit that Mr. Smith has spewed. What's really pissing me off right now? That fact that I didn't opt for the $20 overnight shipping from Mouser for the C5K pots and the SMD transistors that I want to try, so I can hopefully get this clone running proper. Instead, I opted for the $8 postal, which will get here... who knows when. Yup... real pisser indeed.

The other thing that keeps me up nights of late? The hope that it matches up with the original, enough so to meet with ibarakishi's approval.

That, and the need to pee at 3 AM.

That's it.