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small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:36 pm
by manymanyhaha
low pass especially
high pass too
gain before
gain after

and small format

and stereo. dual mono actually

does anyone make it?

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:40 am
by manymanyhaha
When I asked this question last week, I had been listening quite a bit to Boards of Canada and it struck me that just about every sound of theirs had a HPF and LPF. And even though my setup is based entirely on guitar and effecting it, I wanted to mess with that.

Three ideas:

VFE Dragon or Standout both have HPF and LPF.

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Broughton Audio has a HPF/LPF pedal.

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Those are mono though and two would be quite large on my board.

And then it occurred to me the Korg Mini Kaoss Pad 2s would have them, though it appears they can't be run at the same time.

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If anyone has other ideas, :joy: :omg: :!!!: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:02 pm
by qersty
Def would go with the kaoss pad for what youre doing. Honestly its weird that they dont have a hp and lp setting like isnt that like a classic dj effect? maybe it has program morphing idk. Have you considered *chough* tow kaoss pads? Like you could use them for alot more than just filters

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:37 pm
by Bartimaeus
Most lowpass and highpass filters on guitar pedals are non-resonant. A lot of tone controls are just that – the rat's "filter" knob is non-resonant lowpass filter. They'll let you shape your sound, but not in the same way as boards of canada. The closest that you'll find to a stereo filter in the pedal world is a boss eq-200, if you set the sliders to simulate a filter. But it definitely won't sound the same either, and lacks resonance.

Do you definitely need stereo? It's pretty rare to find stereo filters in the analog realm, especially analog highpass lowpass pairs. If you're ok with digital, then a Kaoss Pad is definitely going to be your best option. If you need analog, maybe look at the minifooger drive or moogerfooger lowpass. Otherwise, you'll need to track down a Mutronics Mutator or build a small eurorack rig.

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:34 am
by kaeth
Could get someone to stack two of these Ibanez LF7 clones into one enclosure with dual-gang pots. It's not resonant though.

https://www.pedalpcb.com/product/lofinator/

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:30 am
by manymanyhaha
qersty wrote:Def would go with the kaoss pad for what youre doing. Honestly its weird that they dont have a hp and lp setting like isnt that like a classic dj effect? maybe it has program morphing idk. Have you considered *chough* tow kaoss pads? Like you could use them for alot more than just filters


I most definitely have considered more than one Kaoss Pad while thinking about this. :picard:

Bartimaeus wrote:Most lowpass and highpass filters on guitar pedals are non-resonant. A lot of tone controls are just that – the rat's "filter" knob is non-resonant lowpass filter. They'll let you shape your sound, but not in the same way as boards of canada. The closest that you'll find to a stereo filter in the pedal world is a boss eq-200, if you set the sliders to simulate a filter. But it definitely won't sound the same either, and lacks resonance.

Do you definitely need stereo? It's pretty rare to find stereo filters in the analog realm, especially analog highpass lowpass pairs. If you're ok with digital, then a Kaoss Pad is definitely going to be your best option. If you need analog, maybe look at the minifooger drive or moogerfooger lowpass. Otherwise, you'll need to track down a Mutronics Mutator or build a small eurorack rig.


I definitely do not mind digital. Most of my board is.

Having played quite a bit with resonant filters in the vst effects on my computer, that is not a sound I am very fond of, and not one that I hear a lot in BoC. Or at least, not so that it is apparent to me although I am sure you are most definitely correct. Mostly though, it just occurred to me that they lowpass every sound, especially anything melodic. And then I realized that the bass often has a space carved out to itself so they must highpass just about everything too.

kaeth wrote:Could get someone to stack two of these Ibanez LF7 clones into one enclosure with dual-gang pots. It's not resonant though.

https://www.pedalpcb.com/product/lofinator/


Huh, thanks for this. Last time I tried to build a pedal, misadventure was definitely the word for it but if I could find someone who didn't solder like a game of whack-a-mole like I do, this is potentially appealing.

Just saw this one: https://www.pedalpcb.com/product/pro-filter/
It has a resonant filter, if that is in fact important. The parts list is shorter too!

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:21 am
by Gone Fission
Can the Source Audio Spectrum or C4 do what you’re looking for? (I think but am not 100% that the Spectrum is a mildly nerfed C4, so it’s better to go C4 if you can swing it to have more possibilities.)

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:24 am
by manymanyhaha
Gone Fission wrote:Can the Source Audio Spectrum or C4 do what you’re looking for? (I think but am not 100% that the Spectrum is a mildly nerfed C4, so it’s better to go C4 if you can swing it to have more possibilities.)


They do! I looked at those but the problem is to access LPF/HPF, you have to use the app. I've had a Kingmaker, Nemesis and Ventris and I can tell you, I do not like using their app. But good thought!

It would be awesome to have a strip of them without footswitches like this box Peter Rutter (VFE) built for me a few years ago.

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Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:07 pm
by qersty
You mean like the sherman filter bank? Idk if it does stereo but its a dual filter so maybe. The electrix filter may be an ok option too. Wondering if you maybe could mount two eurorack filters sideways if there are any case solutions for that but it shouldnt be that hard to diy either

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:33 pm
by Bartimaeus
if you're mainly looking to carve out space for different sounds, then a stereo eq pedal is all you need. most likely boc did a lot of that curving during mixing, so they would have been using low and high shelf filters too. You can roughly replicate all of that with a graphic eq. though another big part of it is designing the sounds in the first place, which in the case of guitar would be rolling off your tone knob so you don't need to remove that treble later on. you don't need to carve out room for the bass if you never play low enough to interfere with it haha

it would actually be super easy to build a stereo non-resonant highpass/lowpass circuit. you can even make it passive, just using a dual gang pots and some capacitors. but you'd be better off making it active, or at least having some input and output buffers.

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:50 am
by manymanyhaha
qersty wrote:You mean like the sherman filter bank? Idk if it does stereo but its a dual filter so maybe. The electrix filter may be an ok option too. Wondering if you maybe could mount two eurorack filters sideways if there are any case solutions for that but it shouldnt be that hard to diy either


No not really like those. That box in the photo above is 5 VFE effects, each with its own input and output. I'm starting to think that if I can get my soldering skills in decent shape, to build a box of multiple Lofi-nators (or other design if I can find one) with each having its own input and output. I have a multitrack setup: 6 guitar channels, 1 bass, 4 drums, 2 vox, 2 samples. I'm just trying to find ways that I can put a HPF/LPF on as many channels as possible. Perhaps with a drive/saturation and master level. That's why that lofi-nator is appealing.

Bartimaeus wrote:if you're mainly looking to carve out space for different sounds, then a stereo eq pedal is all you need. most likely boc did a lot of that curving during mixing, so they would have been using low and high shelf filters too. You can roughly replicate all of that with a graphic eq. though another big part of it is designing the sounds in the first place, which in the case of guitar would be rolling off your tone knob so you don't need to remove that treble later on. you don't need to carve out room for the bass if you never play low enough to interfere with it haha

it would actually be super easy to build a stereo non-resonant highpass/lowpass circuit. you can even make it passive, just using a dual gang pots and some capacitors. but you'd be better off making it active, or at least having some input and output buffers.


I hesitated to mention BoC because I'm not really trying to sound like them. I just noticed while in a deep listen to them the other night that they HPF and LPF just about everything and I wanted to try exploring that but in real-time, not in the DAW.

It occurs to me that some of the LPF I am hearing may be a function of the use of tape they are supposedly so fond of.

Do you have any insight into other designs/pcbs besides the lofi-nator one linked to by kaeth?

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:09 pm
by Bartimaeus
this first circuit is technically all you need for a lowpass filter and highpass filter. a passive circuit with just a couple resistors and caps. replace the resistors with potentiometers and you have adjustable filters, the second circuit. it's the same as when you add tone controls to a guitar. to make it stereo, just build two of them. use dual gang pots if you want them to be matched.

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the problem is that these circuits are pretty sensitive to what they're connected to. if you threw these between two buffered pedals, or in a buffered bypass loop (like a boss ls2) then you could probably use them no problem. i'd really recommend trying it out before you do anything more complicated, because it may do the job perfectly in your setup. at the very least it's a good place to get started.

Re: small. stereo. filters.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:53 pm
by manymanyhaha
Great info, thank you