Easy way to get trails from analog delay w/o modding



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Re: Easy way to get trails from analog delay w/o modding

Postby John » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:34 pm

oscillofuzz wrote:The Y split needs to be before the PSM-5 to prevent the delay's output feeding back into itself; so like this: from Guitar/previous FX -> Y split or (buffered) AB splitter - signal line A goes to PSM-5 GUITAR input - signal line B goes to DELAY's input - PSM-5's AMP output goes to amp/next FX in chain - DELAY's output goes into PSM-5's RETURN input. PSM-5's SEND is left empty.
This way the Delay should be left on and is thus constantly listening to your playing via line B, and your Amp/next in chain will constantly be getting the dry signal via line A. When you then turn on the PSM-5, its empty SEND interrupts the dry line from line A, but the effect mixed signal from the Delay's out is coming back (via line B which is always on as well) on the PSM-5's RETURN input and from there goes to the AMP out to the rest of the chain. My only concern at this point is that this might result in a pop or something when you engage the PSM-5's switch, but hey, this forum generally isn't about clean-&-sterile tones, unlike TGP :p

I did this and it works fine, no pops, and does what you were hoping it would! There are of course no trails in this setup unless you rig something more complicated.


oscillofuzz wrote:If you could confirm that this works, I also have a switching system in mind (requiring a small AB mixer) that allows one to change between both Listen and Trails, all switchable, so with longer delays you could record spontaneous loops, put the feedback/repeats on the edge of infinite, turn off the Listen switch to stop additional input signal from entering said loop, while simultaneously leaving Trails on, without losing 'dry' signal input, so you can play over said loop. Until you wish to switch the continuous loop off (which you can do by disengaging the PSM-5, or rolling back the feedback/repeats to let it fade out) and resume regular playing.

If your intent is to have the loop silent when recording, then you could use an A/B effect loop unit, with the A Send going to the delay, B Return coming from the delay, and a Y-cable going both from the B Send and Output to the amp. I just did this and it works, but the Thru levels of A/B don't match because in B mode, the input signal is halved between the (trailing but no longer fed) delay and the Thru. This could be corrected with other devices or maybe a delay with different level controls than mine. This setup allows for clean Thru playing in both A/B, and for recording your loop silently in A mode and then "discharging" the built up repeats in B mode.

If you don't care about silent loop recording, then you could just split your signal with an ABY, send A straight to the amp and B to the delay>>>amp (if amp has 2 inputs: otherwise go to a Y-combiner with both); then select B or Y for recording, and A for bypass with trails.
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Re: Easy way to get trails from analog delay w/o modding

Postby oscillofuzz » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:34 am

John wrote:
oscillofuzz wrote:The Y split needs to be before the PSM-5 to prevent the delay's output feeding back into itself...


I did this and it works fine, no pops, and does what you were hoping it would! There are of course no trails in this setup unless you rig something more complicated.


Awesome! Thanks for checking.


John wrote:
oscillofuzz wrote:If you could confirm that this works, I also have a switching system in mind (requiring a small AB mixer) that allows one to change between both Listen and Trails, all switchable, so with longer delays you could record spontaneous loops, put the feedback/repeats on the edge of infinite, turn off the Listen switch to stop additional input signal from entering said loop, while simultaneously leaving Trails on, without losing 'dry' signal input, so you can play over said loop. Until you wish to switch the continuous loop off (which you can do by disengaging the PSM-5, or rolling back the feedback/repeats to let it fade out) and resume regular playing.


If your intent is to have the loop silent when recording, then you could use an A/B effect loop unit, with the A Send going to the delay, B Return coming from the delay, and a Y-cable going both from the B Send and Output to the amp. I just did this and it works, but the Thru levels of A/B don't match because in B mode, the input signal is halved between the (trailing but no longer fed) delay and the Thru. This could be corrected with other devices or maybe a delay with different level controls than mine. This setup allows for clean Thru playing in both A/B, and for recording your loop silently in A mode and then "discharging" the built up repeats in B mode.

If you don't care about silent loop recording, then you could just split your signal with an ABY, send A straight to the amp and B to the delay>>>amp (if amp has 2 inputs: otherwise go to a Y-combiner with both); then select B or Y for recording, and A for bypass with trails.


Yeah exactly; this is what I tried to describe in the last post on page 1; with a small AB mixer in place of the Y combiner, you can set the Delay to 100% wet and mix the wet/dry signal on the AB mixer. This configuration would allow both a switchable Listen routing (via the ABY switcher split) and a switchable Trails routing (via the PSM-5) back into a single signal output line to amp:

oscillofuzz wrote:The switching system I have in mind is as follows:
From Guitar/previous FX -> ABY switch pedal (preferably buffered I guess) (possibly EHX SwitchbladePlus) - signal line A goes to PSM-5 GUITAR in - line B goes to DELAY's input - PSM-5's AMP out goes to actual Amp or next FX in chain - PSM-5 SEND goes to AB Mixer in 1 (like this https://www.loop-master.com/passive-mic ... p-241.html) - DELAY's output goes to AB Mixer in 2 - AB Mixer's OUT goes to PSM-5's RETURN

In this scenario, both signals coming from the ABY start in an on position. Signal line A is the dry signal, and remains the dry signal thru the SEND out that goes to the AB mixer in 1. Signal line B is the 'listen' signal for the delay, so it constantly gets your signal. And constantly sends it back out to AB mixer in 2 But none of it is sent back through the PSM until you engage it. When you do, the PSM-5's RETURN gets both the dry signal (from line A) and the 'listen' signal (from line B) back from the AB mixer OUT. This also means you have to set the Delay pedal to 100% wet and do dry/wet mixing on the AB mixer, otherwise there would be too much dry signal added when engaging the PSM-5 (which is why to use an AB mixer instead of reversed ABY switcher). Your spontaneous loop is now playing, can be made continuous if you turn up the repeats, and if you switch off signal line B coming from the ABY switcher, no new material will enter the loop, and you can solo/jam/whatever over it. If you dial back the repeats (depending on the delay this could theoretically be done via exp. pedal to keep your hands on the guitar) from a (near-)infinite to a more modest setting your spontaneously recorded/engaged loop will fade out like John's originally proposed Trails setting as you keep playing. Alternatively you could also just let the loop, loop and switch it off instantly at will by disengaging the PSM-5. With the feedback/repeats turned down and the delay memory (almost) empty you could set up for a new loop by turning/leaving the PSM-5 off, turning signal line B from the ABY back on to re-enable the delay's continuous listening, setting the feedback/repeats below infinite and then when you re-engage the PSM-5 your last x amount of (milli)seconds that was heard by the delay is repeated, can be made infinite again by turning up the repeats/feedback knob, turn off signal line B from ABY to again prevent newly played material from being added to the delay memory, continue playing on top of it etc...

(i was already quite tired while typing this so i hope it makes sense as both an instruction for how to set it up and a description of how it would operate)


This would of course require quite a lot of additional cables; but added benefit of this is that you can have all the switchers (PSM-5, ABY) on the floor and all the knobbed pedals (Delay of choice, AB mixer) on a table top for additional fooling around. If you have a delay with expression input for the repeats and plug in a Moog EP2/3 with it's knob to select the maximum position in toe-down set before oscillation threshold, you could also engage the infinite repeats of your spontaneous loop with your feet while you keep playing the guitar with your hands...
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Re: Easy way to get trails from analog delay w/o modding

Postby Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:49 pm

ah heres the thread, i found u!
was inspired by this thread to design/create my own trails pedal.
prolly not the most efficient way to do it but it works nice
thanks for the inspiration!
2018-10-15 21.18.05.jpg
2018-10-15 21.18.05.jpg (380.95 KiB) Viewed 78 times
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Re: Easy way to get trails from analog delay w/o modding

Postby John » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:28 pm

Sick, what's going on in dat box dere? And who's a bro got to blo to get one?
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Re: Easy way to get trails from analog delay w/o modding

Postby Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:43 pm

basically a powered FX loop pedal. jacks are in & out, send & return
adds trails to anything u plug in the send & return loop.

i do have 2 more boards and one box all ready to go. gunna finish assembling it today.
i could sell u one if your interested...?
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Re: Easy way to get trails from analog delay w/o modding

Postby John » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:01 pm

Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. wrote:basically a powered FX loop pedal. jacks are in & out, send & return
adds trails to anything u plug in the send & return loop.

i do have 2 more boards and one box all ready to go. gunna finish assembling it today.
i could sell u one if your interested...?

Cool, so the difference between this and a regular loop pedal is that the signal from the loop is always active? And does bypass mute the signal to the loop? Or something different?
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Re: Easy way to get trails from analog delay w/o modding

Postby Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:16 pm

when the pedal is activated, then your signal travels thru the fx loop.
when the pedal is bypassed, the signal does not travel thru the loop (goes in to out)
but the return is actively mixed w/ the in to the out giving u trails

since the mixing is active (i.e not passive) there is no funky volume drop or anything

hope that helps.
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Re: Easy way to get trails from analog delay w/o modding

Postby John » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:58 pm

Dr. Sherman Sticks M.D. wrote:when the pedal is activated, then your signal travels thru the fx loop.
when the pedal is bypassed, the signal does not travel thru the loop (goes in to out)
but the return is actively mixed w/ the in to the out giving u trails

since the mixing is active (i.e not passive) there is no funky volume drop or anything

hope that helps.

Awesome! About how mooch are you thinking aboot charging for one? PM if top secret
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