Failed Pedal Lines and Companies

[echorec]

While ILF's prone to circle jerks, IMO, this ain't one of 'em just because almost everybody disagrees with you.

You're right, Chank. How could I ever mistake people masturbating each other for a circle jerk? I guess that's one more term that needs to be restructured for the ILF-only dictionary.

[Chankgeez]

Perception, echorec, perception.

[echorec]

What I find humorous/infuriating/nauseating about this particular circle jerk is that there seems to be no controversy in labelling Devi a failure. There's no controversy in labelling her work sloppy or unprofessional.

There is, however, controversy in suggesting that someone whose work can be characterized in said terms has not necessarily had a "drastic" influence on the industry as a whole.

To me (and forgive me for being acquainted with a dictionary), but if Devi has been so highly influential, (as you sandboxers have convinced yourselves she has been) then shouldn't she be omitted from a running list of failures? Some people would strongly contest that influencing others is the ultimate measurement of success.

[D.o.S.]

You can say the same things about Schumann, but we're drowning in stompbox PLLs because of him.

She definitely isn't the most important person in the industry and her influence has waned considerable over the years.

But - she was early in the wave of using video demos like she did. We all do that now. She helped the DIY community, which created a lot of customers because she was open with them. She was one of the first small builders in Musicians Friend, which you could argue legitimized our weird little underground industry. That she squandered some of those opportunities isn't really the point.

I don't understand why you'd argue that she wasn't important at all. You can say that she changed the industry (both good and bad) and that she didn't impact actual current pedal design all that much. Both can be true.

[D.o.S.]

I'm not erasing her, I'm just saying that she's not really a pioneer in my book, because she sold handmade fuzzes for cheaper than Zvex. Without her time in the spotlight, I just don't think the industry would be "drastically different" as you phrased it. You've got people building loopers, glitch devices, DSP delays, frozen reverbs, and tap-tempo modulation pedals all over the world, whereas Devi focused on fuzz. Therefore I don't agree with said sentiment----unless by industry, people mean something else entirely---because fuzz is one component of a much broader industry. As far as the pedal industry at-large, I think her influence is somewhat minimal, not drastic.

For what it's worth, this is a pretty reasonable position.

But I dunno if it's worth harping on one adjective for three pages or being so upset that people don't agree with your striation of importance..

[crochambeau]

What I find humorous/infuriating/nauseating about this particular circle jerk is that there seems to be no controversy in labelling Devi a failure. There's no controversy in labelling her work sloppy or unprofessional.

There is, however, controversy in suggesting that someone whose work can be characterized in said terms has not necessarily had a "drastic" influence on the industry as a whole.

To me (and forgive me for being acquainted with a dictionary), but if Devi has been so highly influential, (as you sandboxers have convinced yourselves she has been) then shouldn't she be omitted from a running list of failures? Some people would strongly contest that influencing others is the ultimate measurement of success.

I think "the industry" as being referenced extends to the bedroom or basement builders in the "ILF circlejerk" perception, and perhaps does not extend as "low" in your own radar?

I would posit the notion that the circuit bending crowd (another lot of messy insanity) would probably infill this void (of wild west style chaotic builds on the cheap) in an alternate reality that saw Devi Ever immersed in say, video game design.

[Jwar]

What I find humorous/infuriating/nauseating about this particular circle jerk is that there seems to be no controversy in labelling Devi a failure. There's no controversy in labelling her work sloppy or unprofessional.

There is, however, controversy in suggesting that someone whose work can be characterized in said terms has not necessarily had a "drastic" influence on the industry as a whole.

To me (and forgive me for being acquainted with a dictionary), but if Devi has been so highly influential, (as you sandboxers have convinced yourselves she has been) then shouldn't she be omitted from a running list of failures? Some people would strongly contest that influencing others is the ultimate measurement of success.

So, here's what I don't quite understand about your "argument". You clearly have a personal bias based on a bad experience and are neglecting to see (for whatever reason) that Devi could have influenced other companies. She admits openly that her work was sloppy, she owned her unprofessional behavior on multiple occasions through the years (but is obviously afflicted by massive depression, not an excuse but an explanation). She directly influenced several companies that are now pretty successful regardless of if they want to admit it or not. Does that make her the most influential person in gear history? No, but it doesn't make her the least either.

You want ILF's respect obviously because you stick around, yet you lash out with immature attacks at people you do not like for whatever reason. It's a bit absurd if you ask me. If I attack someone, I have the conviction to at least apologize when I am wrong, which I have been many times over.

If you don't want to be here, then leave bro. No one is stopping you. You clearly despise our "circle jerk" and yes, I'll admit I get that feel from time to time here as well, but we are a community for a reason. We like each other.

ILF influences the gear world regardless of what anyone thinks as well. We may be a small forum but we draw in builders if we are unhappy or happy, and people listen and lurk here constantly and have for years.

Also, if you think we LOVE Devi, you haven't paid attention to anything in your time here. Go back and read some threads. Go revisit our history with Devi.

Some of us (I'm speaking directly for myself here) are tired of the anger and hatred and want to disconnect from that aspect of things. I forgive Devi for what she's said to me in the past. I can do that because I don't have room for resentment and grudges in my heart.

[UglyCasanova]

But do you have room for my boner in your butt?

[Jwar]

But do you have room for my boner in your butt?

I will make room.

[Inconuucl]

Does this mean I'm getting evicted?

[D.o.S.]

New roommate.

[echorec]

NSFW: show

So, here's what I don't quite understand about your "argument". You clearly have a personal bias based on a bad experience and are neglecting to see (for whatever reason) that Devi could have influenced other companies. She admits openly that her work was sloppy, she owned her unprofessional behavior on multiple occasions through the years (but is obviously afflicted by massive depression, not an excuse but an explanation). She directly influenced several companies that are now pretty successful regardless of if they want to admit it or not. Does that make her the most influential person in gear history? No, but it doesn't make her the least either.

You want ILF's respect obviously because you stick around, yet you lash out with immature attacks at people you do not like for whatever reason. It's a bit absurd if you ask me. If I attack someone, I have the conviction to at least apologize when I am wrong, which I have been many times over.

If you don't want to be here, then leave bro. No one is stopping you. You clearly despise our "circle jerk" and yes, I'll admit I get that feel from time to time here as well, but we are a community for a reason. We like each other.

ILF influences the gear world regardless of what anyone thinks as well. We may be a small forum but we draw in builders if we are unhappy or happy, and people listen and lurk here constantly and have for years.

Also, if you think we LOVE Devi, you haven't paid attention to anything in your time here. Go back and read some threads. Go revisit our history with Devi.

Some of us (I'm speaking directly for myself here) are tired of the anger and hatred and want to disconnect from that aspect of things. I forgive Devi for what she's said to me in the past. I can do that because I don't have room for resentment and grudges in my heart.

Jwar, pal, I disagree with 99% of this, but you're welcome to feel that way. You can sustain these opinions forever. That's fine by me, but you're opening up new parallels and drawing conclusions that I can't lay ownership to, so I really would prefer not to dissect and counterpoint all of this.

I will say, poster-to-poster, that I got your package this week....but there were no pictures of your package....so maybe ILF isn't a society of equals after all?

you lash out with immature attacks at people you do not like for whatever reason. It's a bit absurd if you ask me. If I attack someone, I have the conviction to at least apologize when I am wrong, which I have been many times over.

I don't know what's immature about defending my views? I disagreed with you, just like I disagreed with a handful of people. I wasn't trying to shame or discredit you for having a different opinion.

Who do I owe an apology to---Goroth? If someone comes in cold as the 4th or 5th wheel and calls me "ignorant" on a subject that I'm extremely knowledgeable in, then those are the actions of a jackass. If I'm ignorant after 20 years of buying, building, and researching pedals, then this board is inhabited exclusively by blind wanderers lost in the wilderness. I think jackass was fairly appropriate.

We can keep rehashing this, but I was fine with the thread wrapping up long before. Have a great day.

[D.o.S.]

You can't stop yet! You haven't told us where to prostrate ourselves at the altar of your infinite wisdom.

[D.o.S.]

Is it that piddling NAMM thread? I bet it's the piddling NAAM thread.

[Chankgeez]

I was just gonna link that NAMM thread. Fuck you, D.o.S.!!!